Please enjoy this transcript of a special Q&A episode of The Tim Ferriss Show. As some of you know, I tested a “fan-supported model” in 2019 but ended up returning to ads by request. That’s a long story, and you can read more about it at tim.blog/podcastexperiment. I recently sat down on Zoom with some of the supporters, which is the episode you are about to hear. 
请欣赏The Tim Ferriss Show的特别 Q&A 集的文字实录。正如你们中的一些人所知，我曾在 2019 年测试过 "粉丝支持模式"，但最终还是应要求回到了广告模式。说来话长，您可以在tim.blog/podcastexperiment上阅读更多相关信息。最近，我与一些支持者坐在 Zoom 上，这就是你们将要听到的这一集。

I answer questions on how I’ve changed my mind around parenthood, what’s next for me and how I am thinking about next steps, how I find joy, how to live with urgency, my advice for career reinvention in the age of AI, avoiding complacency and ruts, and much, much more.
我回答的问题包括：我如何改变了为人父母的想法、我的下一步是什么、我如何考虑下一步、我如何找到快乐、如何紧迫地生活、我对人工智能时代职业重塑的建议、避免自满和固步自封等等。

Transcripts may contain a few typos. With many episodes lasting 2+ hours, it can be difficult to catch minor errors. Enjoy!
录音誊本可能包含一些错别字。由于很多剧集都长达 2 个多小时，因此很难发现一些小错误。敬请欣赏！

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the episode on YouTube here.
Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, ；Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, ；Audible 或您最喜爱的播客平台。您可以在此处观看 YouTube 上的这一集。

DUE TO SOME HEADACHES IN THE PAST, PLEASE NOTE LEGAL CONDITIONS:
由于过去的一些令人头疼的问题，请注意法律条件：

Tim Ferriss owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of The Tim Ferriss Show podcast, with all rights reserved, as well as his right of publicity.
蒂姆-费里斯拥有《蒂姆-费里斯秀》播客中所有内容和文字稿的版权，并保留所有权利以及他的公开权。

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Tim Ferriss: Cool. Well, this is a cozy bunch, not too big, not too small. And Scott, I like your taste in the headsets.
蒂姆-费里斯：酷。这是一群温馨的人，不大也不小。斯科特，我喜欢你对耳麦的品味。

Scott Washburn: Thanks.
斯科特-沃什伯恩：谢谢。

Tim Ferriss: Got Lee popping in. All right, so I think the most interesting way to do this is just to kind of go around and have a conversation, and people can ask their questions. It could be the question that you submitted. Frankly, to keep it interesting for me, it could be something else too, but up to you. 
蒂姆-费里斯：李突然出现了。好的，我认为最有趣的方式就是四处走动，进行对话，人们可以提出自己的问题。也可以是你提交的问题。坦率地说，为了让我觉得有趣，也可以是其他问题，但由你决定。

Let’s see. Sarah, would you like to go first? 
让我们看看莎拉，你想先来吗？

Sarah Thompson: Yeah, so I haven’t seen you in 30 years, which you may or may not remember.
Sarah Thompson：

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, I was going to say. I know that name, and I know that face. Yeah.
蒂姆-费里斯：是的，我正想说。我知道那个名字，也知道那张脸。我知道那个名字，也知道那张脸。

Sarah Thompson: Yeah. Well, it’s Sarah Carley, probably, to you.
Sarah Thompson：是的。对你来说，可能是莎拉-卡莉吧。

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, it’s been a minute. Nice to see you.
蒂姆-费里斯：是啊，好久不见。很高兴见到你。

Sarah Thompson: It’s been a long time. Yeah, so it’s good to see you well. I had a question about something in the past two years that’s been a significant change of mind for you, a place where you’ve really made a big, big pivot in something you thought you knew.
Sarah Thompson：

Tim Ferriss: I’d say the biggest pivot that comes to mind is related to parenting, fatherhood. Just never felt like I had any evidence to support that I would be a good dad for a host of reasons, and felt like since that, as far as I know, is a forever decision, or at least a decision until you pass away, hopefully predating your kids, that I just did not feel comfortable thinking about pulling the trigger on something that significant. Also, because I do think on some level, becoming a parent is fundamentally self-interested. I don’t want to call it selfish, but you are choosing to have kids. So you want to make sure you bring them into the most supportive circumstances possible for them to flourish. And I would say in the last handful of years, as more and more of my friends have had kids and then second kids, in some cases third kids, and I’ve spent time with a lot of those kids that I’ve heard over and over again from friends, “You would be a great dad. You’ve got to get on that train, you’ve got to do it.”
蒂姆-费里斯：我想到的最大的转折点与养育子女和做父亲有关。由于种种原因，我从未觉得自己会成为一个好父亲，而且据我所知，这是一个永远的决定，或者说至少是在你去世之前的决定，但愿比你的孩子更早，所以我觉得在做这样重大的事情时，扣动扳机会让我感到不舒服。另外，我认为在某种程度上，为人父母从根本上说是利己的。我不想说这是自私，但你选择了生孩子。因此，你要确保把他们带到最有利的环境中，让他们茁壮成长。我想说的是，在过去的几年里，随着我越来越多的朋友有了孩子，然后是第二个孩子，在某些情况下是第三个孩子，我也花时间陪伴了很多这样的孩子，我一次又一次地听到朋友们说："你会是一个很棒的爸爸。"你会是个好爸爸的，你一定要上车，一定要这么做"。

So I would say that’s probably the most material pivot, and I can’t say with a hundred percent confidence I’m going to be the world’s greatest dad. But I suppose the question that I ask myself, but never really applied to this, but I do apply to a lot of other places is, with question X or challenge Y, has anyone less capable or less intelligent or less resourced ever figured this out and done a pretty good job? And of course the answer is yes with parenting. And I just, for whatever reason, never made the cognitive hop to apply that same question that I put so many other places to parenting. So I would say that’s the biggest one that comes to mind.
所以我想说，这可能是最重要的转折点，我不能百分之百地说我会成为世界上最伟大的父亲。但我想，我问自己的问题是，面对问题 X 或挑战 Y，有没有能力更弱、智慧更低、资源更少的人想出了办法，并且做得很好？答案当然是肯定的。只是，不管出于什么原因，我从来没有在认知上跳出来，把我在其他很多地方提出的同样的问题应用到育儿上。所以我想说，这是我想到的最大的一个问题。

It seems like the next great chapter and adventure, so we’ll see where that goes. I have some pre-reqs to figure out first, girlfriend, partner, wife, mother of the children kind of situation. I guess technically I don’t need to travel that path, but that’s where I’m focused at the moment. Thanks for the question. Nice to see you after three decades.
这似乎是下一个伟大的篇章和冒险，我们将拭目以待。我首先要弄清楚一些前提条件，女朋友、伴侣、妻子、孩子的母亲之类的情况。我想从技术上讲，我不需要走这条路，但这是我目前的重点。谢谢你的提问。很高兴三十年后再见到你。

All right, so we can go in any particular order. So I’m just following some line of sorts on my screen. Scott, would you like to go next? Not to favor all the people with headsets. Oh, no. We have multiple headsets down here, Andrew as well.
好的，我们可以按照任何特定的顺序进行。我只是按照屏幕上的顺序来做。斯科特，你想下一个发言吗？不要偏袒所有戴耳机的人不会吧我们下面有多个耳麦 安德鲁也是

Scott Washburn: Yeah. So I guess my question kind of dovetails with Sarah’s a little bit. It seems like you’re thinking about maybe next steps for you and your career. You’ve hit 10 years on the podcast, and it sounds like you’re maybe exploring some new stuff with writing a book and doing art. And I’m just curious what types of new things are you exploring, and how are you maybe thinking about the next, say, 10 years of your life and what’s next?
斯科特-沃什伯恩：是的。所以我想我的问题和萨拉的问题有点吻合。看来你正在考虑下一步的职业生涯。你在播客上的时间已经有 10 年了，听起来你可能正在探索一些新的东西，比如写书和做艺术。我很好奇你在探索哪些类型的新事物，以及你是如何考虑下一个十年的生活和下一步的？

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, that’s a big one. Start with the big questions, then we can get down to what’s your new favorite pair of socks later. So I would say, I’ll back into that from the end of the question first. So next 10 years, who knows? For me, I’ve never really had super long-term goals that are well-planned out in part because I feel like, looking at it from the professional perspective at least, if you can hit your plan reliably point by point, it’s probably too far within your sphere of comfort, if that makes sense. And there are so many unpredictable elements that it’s probably, I don’t want to say an exercise in futility because I do think it’s important to have a plan, even if that plan isn’t something you can execute on perfectly.
蒂姆-费里斯：是的，这是个大问题。先从大问题开始，然后我们再讨论你最喜欢的一双袜子是什么。所以我想说，我会先从问题的结尾开始。未来十年，谁知道呢？对我来说，我从来没有规划好的超级长远目标，部分原因是我觉得，至少从专业的角度来看，如果你能可靠地逐点实现你的计划，那么它可能离你的舒适范围太远了，如果这样说有道理的话。不可预知的因素太多，我不想说这是徒劳无功，因为我确实认为制定一个计划很重要，即使这个计划不是你能完美执行的。

But my plan time horizon tends to be, I would say, with most things in this six to 12-month range. And the assumption is there that if I do really well at something over that period of time, it will open doors that I could not have predicted or foreseen ahead of time, if that makes any sense. If you think about, say, the first book, if you think about the podcast, I could not in any universe I can imagine have foreseen what those would bring to the door two, three years later. I just could not have even imagined certainly at least half of the things that would’ve appeared. So I tend to think of it in those terms. 
但我的计划时间范围，我想说的是，大多数事情都在 6 到 12 个月的范围内。我的假设是，如果我在这段时间内把某件事情做得非常好，它就会打开一扇门，而这扇门是我无法提前预测或预见的，如果这有任何意义的话。如果你想一想，比如说第一本书，如果你想一想播客，我在任何宇宙中都不可能预见到两三年后这些会给我们带来什么。我甚至无法想象至少有一半的东西会出现。所以，我倾向于从这些方面来考虑。

But some of the, let’s just say side quests and alleyways that I’m exploring mostly relate to trying to break outside of what I’ve done before, and there are a few reasons for that. So one is that I recognize in myself that it’s very easy to not become complacent, but to become comfortable with repeating certain recipes that you have in your life, whatever those recipes are. And they typically relate to a domain you know pretty well. So in my case, let’s just say that’s publishing, that’s podcasting on some level, that’s early-stage investing.
但是，我正在探索的一些旁门左道和小路，大多与尝试突破我以前所做的事情有关，这有几个原因。其中一个原因是，我发现自己很容易不自满，而是习惯于重复自己生活中的某些习惯，不管这些习惯是什么。它们通常与你非常熟悉的领域有关。因此，就我而言，可以说是出版、某种程度上的播客、早期投资。

And while I enjoy all of those things or facets of each of those things, there’s a benefit. I have felt a huge benefit in identity diversification over time. Each time you try something that’s not really bound within your current identity, it buys you permission to do that over and over again and to open up a whole new realm of possibilities that you might not have considered if, for instance, I viewed myself as an author. I could have constrained myself further to being a business author.
虽然我喜欢所有这些事情或每件事情的方方面面，但这也有好处。随着时间的推移，我感受到了身份多样化的巨大好处。每当你尝试一些与你当前身份并不相符的事情时，你就会获得一次又一次的尝试机会，并开辟出一个全新的可能性领域，而如果我把自己视为一名作家，你可能不会考虑到这些可能性。我可能会把自己进一步限制为一名商业作家。

And that was part of the reason I chose to, once the success of The 4-Hour Workweek gave me a certain grace period within which I could try anything because publishers would be like, “Well, we missed the first one, but let’s maybe get the second one.” Or, “We want to keep him for the long term so we can do The 3-Hour Workweek and The 2-Hour Workweek.” So fine, if it makes them happy to do this stupid thing called The 4-Hour Body — and that’s not what the publisher said, but they were more excited for me to stay in my lane. The 4-Hour Body then proved to me I could experiment outside of the lines that would limit me to, say, the business category. And then, that furthermore led me to experiment with a lot of other things.
这也是我选择《4小时工作周》的部分原因，《4小时工作周》的成功给了我一个宽限期，在这个宽限期内，我可以尝试任何事情，因为出版商会说："好吧，我们错过了第一部，但也许我们可以拍第二部"。或者说，"我们想长期留住他，这样我们就可以出版《3小时工作周》和《2小时工作周》"。所以好吧，如果做这个叫《4小时身体》的蠢事能让他们高兴的话--出版商可不是这么说的，但他们更希望我保持自己的风格。《4小时身体》向我证明，我可以跳出将我限制在商业类别等范围内的框框。然后，这进一步引导我尝试了很多其他的东西。

So that is a long preamble to say that the areas that I’m looking at really closely right now are, for instance, games, just totally out of left field. It wouldn’t fit neatly in my Wikipedia page, I’ll put it that way. And CØCKPUNCH and the whole NFT craziness was an example of also doing something very far afield. And I’ll show you another one actually, because I couldn’t show this to you otherwise. So hold on a second, I’ll show you.
前面说了这么多，我想说的是，我现在正在密切关注的领域，比如说，游戏，这完全是一个全新的领域。这在我的维基百科页面上并不合适，我就这么说吧。CØCKPUNCH 和整个疯狂的 NFT 就是一个例子，也是在做一些非常偏僻的事情。实际上，我还会给你们看另一个例子，因为如果不这样，我就没法给你们看这个。等一下，我给你看。

This, for instance, is a great book, by the way. This is The DC Comics Guide to Writing Comics by Dennis O’Neil with an introduction by Stan Lee. This is actually a great, great book. And I just visited Comic-Con for the first time, in this case in New York City, which was huge. I could not believe the scale of it. I have always loved illustration and wanted to be a comic book penciller. Actually, this is going to suck for people who only have audio, but I’ll do some more show and tell. Hold on.
顺便说一下，这本书就很不错。这是丹尼斯-奥尼尔（Dennis O'Neil）撰写的《DC漫画创作指南》（The DC Comics Guide to Writing Comics），斯坦-李（Stan Lee）作了介绍。这其实是一本很棒很棒的书。我刚刚第一次参观了动漫展，这次是在纽约，规模非常大。我简直不敢相信它的规模。我一直很喜欢插画，想成为一名漫画笔者。其实，这对只有音频的人来说会很糟糕，但我会再做一些展示和讲述。稍等。

Okay, so this is artwork that my mom kept that is from way back in the day. But just to give you an idea, these are covers of magazines that I did way back in like ’95, ’96, and this type of stuff, this type of illustration. I’m not saying it’s the best in the world, but it’s a longstanding interest of mine, and reinvigorating that. So part of what I’ve done is look backwards in time to guess at what might elicit a lot of energy recharge for me in the future, so looking back at what really activated me and seeing if I can explore some of those edges in the future.
好吧，这是我妈妈保留下来的艺术品 是很久以前的作品了但我只是想让你了解一下，这些是我在 95、96 年的时候画的杂志封面，这类东西，这类插画。我并不是说这是世界上最好的，但这是我长期以来的兴趣所在，我想重振这种兴趣。因此，我所做的部分工作就是回顾过去，猜测未来哪些东西可能会给我带来大量的能量补充，所以回顾一下哪些东西真正激活了我，看看我是否能在未来探索其中的一些边缘。

Furthermore, animation is way up there, and doing creative pushes, which I experimented first through the fiction writing associated with CØCKPUNCH. Which by the way, if you replace that word with anything else, it is a pretty viable fantasy world. But it was a way to take pressure off of myself, to publicly position it as a joke and a satire, but allowing me with very little pressure to play with things that otherwise, if I presented them as serious, I think could cause a lot of performance anxiety and insecurity. Because if people critiqued it, I would take it very personally.
此外，动画制作也很重要，我通过与《CØCKPUNCH》相关的小说创作，首次尝试了创意推理。顺便说一句，如果把这个词换成其他任何词，它都是一个相当可行的幻想世界。但这也是一种为自己减压的方式，将其公开定位为一个笑话和讽刺，但又允许我在很小的压力下玩弄一些东西，否则，如果我把它们表现得很严肃，我想可能会引起很多表演焦虑和不安全感。因为如果人们批评我，我会非常在意。

But stuff like this, Masterpieces of Fantasy Art. This is Frazetta on the cover. Lots of amazing artwork in this one. And those are a few, and there’s certainly the new book project, but within the book project, changing a lot of variables. So for instance, and I haven’t made any decisions around this yet, but the possibility of self-publishing, the possibility of taking that book, presenting it serially. So sharing the first chapter or the first two chapters, something like that. Having a private community of, I don’t know how many people, 100, 200 people maybe, who test aspects of the book and then provide feedback and can refine it over time and release a chapter a week or something like that over time, and have the audience track it, the small audience, the private audience, track it in real time, and then polish the whole thing into a diamond, hopefully, and publish it later, which could be very much — almost certainly at least a high percentage of that project would be outside of traditional publishing.
但像这样的东西，《奇幻艺术杰作》。这是封面上的弗雷泽塔。这本书里有很多令人惊叹的艺术作品。这只是其中的一部分，当然还有新书项目，但在新书项目中，会有很多变数。举例来说，我还没有做出任何决定，但自我出版的可能性，以及将这本书连载的可能性。分享第一章或前两章，诸如此类。我不知道有多少人组成了一个私人社区，也许有100人、200人，他们对书的各个方面进行测试，然后提供反馈意见，并随着时间的推移不断完善，每周发布一章或类似的内容，并让受众（小受众、私人受众）对其进行实时跟踪，然后将整本书打磨成钻石，希望以后能够出版。

So I’m taking something I know, but I’m creating a permutation that might lead somewhere very, very interesting. And the way I think, this is a very long answer, but obviously I’m thinking about it a lot. In the case of, say, the publishing, this is true with all the other games, comic books, etc. that I mentioned, I’m looking for projects that will help me to either build or deepen relationships and acquire skills that can transcend that project.
所以，我在利用我所知道的东西，但我在创造一种可能导致非常非常有趣的地方的变体。我的想法是，这是个很长的答案，但显然我想了很多。在出版方面，我提到的所有其他游戏、漫画书等都是如此，我在寻找能帮助我建立或加深关系的项目，并获得能超越该项目的技能。

So for instance, CØCKPUNCH, I mean, sure, it succeeded in the sense that it raised $2 million for the Saisei Foundation. All of the proceeds went to my non-profit foundation to fund science and so on, early-stage science. But NFTs as a whole, as you may have noticed, have fallen out of favor for a million and one reasons, which is fine. And I kind of anticipated that might be the case, so I set expectations very, very low up front because you can’t predict these types of market conditions. But I learned a lot through that. Ended up doing a scripted podcast, met some of the best artists in the worlds of, say, Dungeons & Dragons and Magic: The Gathering, worked really well with them. So most importantly, proved to myself that I could work with a small team of creatives, and we would actually get along as opposed to me being unreasonable and overly stubborn and a control freak, which are probably ways I would describe myself.
例如，《CØCKPUNCH》，我的意思是，当然，它成功地为赛星基金会筹集了 200 万美元。所有收益都捐给了我的非营利基金会，用于资助科学研究等早期科学。但正如你可能已经注意到的，NFTs作为一个整体，已经因为无数的原因而失宠，这很好。我也预料到会是这种情况，所以我把期望值定得非常非常低，因为你无法预测这类市场状况。但我从中学到了很多。最后我做了一个有脚本的播客，认识了世界上最好的艺术家，比如Dungeons & Dragons和Magic: The Gathering，和他们合作得非常愉快。因此，最重要的是，我向自己证明了，我可以与一个小型创意团队合作，而且我们会相处得很好，而不是像我这样无理取闹、过于固执和控制狂。

But it actually worked. And I was like, “Holy shit, okay.” As a proof of concept, I could take that new-found confidence, that very limited experiment, but the feeling from that and apply it to possibly something more ambitious or completely different. Animation, as an example, would be a very, very, very different iteration of that process. So I’m not sure if that answers the question, but that’s how I’m trying to think through a lot of these things myself. Is that helpful at all?
但它真的成功了我当时就想，"我靠，好吧"。作为一个概念证明，我可以把这种新发现的自信，这种非常有限的实验，但从中得到的感觉，应用到可能更雄心勃勃或完全不同的东西上。比如说，动画制作，就是一个非常、非常、非常不同的迭代过程。所以，我不确定这是否回答了问题，但这就是我自己尝试思考这些事情的方式。这对你有帮助吗？

Scott Washburn: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks.
斯科特-沃什伯恩：是的。是的，当然。谢谢。

Tim Ferriss: All right, let’s hop around. Theron?
Tim Ferriss：好吧，让我们跳一跳。特伦？

Theron Barbour: My question for you, Tim, is what’s bringing you joy these days?
Theron Barbour：蒂姆，我想问你的问题是，最近是什么给你带来了快乐？

Tim Ferriss: I would say it’s always the simple things, right? We can search for all these esoteric means of satisfying this quest for happiness and joy, and usually the absence of those things is remedied pretty quickly with just returning to basics. So for me, I would say I experienced one of the most uninterrupted periods of joy most recently being in the mountains, spending the first half of every day more or less outside with my dog, getting tons of exercise in the sun, pushing the system, adding some stress, getting all the benefits of the hormonal cascade and so on that comes from that. And then, in the second half of the day, spending time on, first and foremost, the admin stuff of life is always there, but really blocking out consistently and it’s easier for me to do this when I have less time in a day to allocate to work. 
蒂姆-费里斯：我想说的是，简单的事情总是最重要的，对吗？我们可以寻找所有这些深奥的方法来满足对幸福和快乐的追求，而通常只要返璞归真，就能很快弥补这些东西的缺失。所以对我来说，我想说我最近在山里经历了一段最不间断的快乐时光，每天的前半段或多或少都和我的狗在户外度过，在阳光下做大量的运动，推动身体系统，增加一些压力，从中获得荷尔蒙级联的所有好处等等。然后，在一天的后半段，把时间花在首先是生活中的行政事务上，但真正的阻断始终如一，当我一天中分配给工作的时间较少时，这样做对我来说更容易。

When I have all the time in the world and I’m in an urban environment, I can fritter away all that time in 10, 15-minute distractions and end up not really accomplishing very much and not feeling very good about it. If I have the first half of the day, which you could do in an urban environment too, kind of dedicated to motion, movement, physical skill development, in this case time with my dog so it could be some type of group class or otherwise, doesn’t have to be the whole day, but really having that in the first half of the day, then having a two to four-hour period where I’m focused on something very immersive, single tasking without any distractions and in this case, that would’ve been latter half of August, September, and then early October, it would’ve been book-focused and doing that in collaboration with one other person who I’m deeply involving in this book project.
当我拥有全世界所有的时间，而我又身处城市环境中时，我可能会把所有的时间都浪费在 10 到 15 分钟的分心上，最终并没有取得什么真正的成就，感觉也不是很好。如果我把一天中的前半部分（在城市环境中也可以这样做）专门用于运动、移动、身体技能发展，在这种情况下，我可以和我的狗在一起，所以它可以是某种类型的集体课程或其他，不一定要一整天，但真的要在一天的前半部分这样做、然后，在两到四小时的时间里，我专注于一些非常沉浸的事情，心无旁骛地完成单一任务，在这种情况下，这将是八月下半月、九月和十月初，这将是以书为中心的，并与另一个人合作完成，我正在深入参与这个图书项目。

So I would say those are a few and then along the lines of week to week identity diversification so that if one thing stalls or doesn’t do well or as well as I would hope, I can still have a win so to speak, like chalk things up to a win. Archery has been great. That’s ongoing. So I’m spending a lot of time with archery. I overdid it the other day so my shoulder and elbow are killing me because I did it and overdid in a particularly stupid way. So I’m taking a few days off, but that has been a really consistent practice such that, if I’m not in the mountains because practically speaking, I mean you asked me personally what I’m doing, but for a lot of folks they’re like, “Okay, well great.” If you happen to be able to put yourself in the mountains around rivers and lakes, fantastic.
因此，我想说的就是这些，然后按照每周身份多样化的思路，这样如果一件事停滞不前，或者做得不好，或者不如我希望的那样好，我仍然可以说是赢了，就像把事情归结为一场胜利。射箭一直很棒。这还在继续。所以我花了很多时间在射箭上。前几天我射箭射过头了，我的肩膀和手肘疼得要命，因为我射箭射过头了，而且是以一种特别愚蠢的方式。所以我休息了几天 但我一直坚持练习 如果我不在山上的话 因为实际上 我是说你问我个人在做什么 但对很多人来说 他们会说 "好吧 很好"如果你碰巧能把自己置身于河流和湖泊周围的山区，那就太好了。

But even where I’m sitting right now, for instance, not tomorrow because I need the elbow and shoulder rest, but the day after that, as soon as I wake up, it’s going to be meditation briefly and I just recently got back on the train and we might speak more about that later in this conversation. Then an hour of archery and then cold plunge. That’s the morning. It doesn’t have to be four or five hours, it can be quite a bit shorter, and that sets the tone for the rest of the day. So those are a few things that come to mind. On an annual level, I would say the most important thing that I do for my sense of joy and well-being, and I think joy for me is very often the forgetting of the self, whereas the quest for happiness can sometimes get turned into an obsessive focus on the self.
但即使是我现在坐的这个位置，比如说，不是明天，因为我需要肘部和肩部休息，而是后天，我一醒来，就会进行短暂的冥想，我最近刚回到火车上，我们可能会在稍后的谈话中详细谈谈这个问题。然后是一个小时的射箭和冷水浴。这就是上午的活动。不一定非要四五个小时，也可以短一点，这就为一天的其他时间定下了基调。以上就是我想到的几件事。在年度层面上，我想说我为我的快乐和幸福感所做的最重要的事情，我认为快乐对我来说往往是忘记自我，而对幸福的追求有时会变成对自我的执着关注。

Does that make sense? At least I think that’s where I slip sometimes. It’s like, “I should be happy. I should be happy. Am I happy?” Whereas joy is this sort of emergent experience of forgetting yourself. So for me to facilitate that, blocking out multiple say one-week periods where I’m with groups of friends. That’s just the most reliable way to do it. So each year, I’ll look through the past year, identify let’s just call it the relationships that are most enlivening for me where they’re reliably always going to be, “Hell, yeah. I wish we could have spent more time together. Can’t wait to do that again,” those people, it’s a short list. And then scheduling time with those people in group environments, ideally doing something active like yurt-to-yurt backcountry skiing or a hike or in the case of most recently it was a hunt with five other people.
有道理吗？至少我觉得这就是我有时失误的地方。就好像，"我应该开心。我应该快乐我快乐吗？"而快乐是一种忘我的体验对我来说，要做到这一点，就需要在一周的时间里多和朋友们在一起。这是最可靠的方法。因此，每年我都会回顾过去的一年，找出对我来说最有活力的关系，让我们称之为 "地狱，是的。真希望我们能在一起多呆一会儿。我迫不及待地想再来一次。"这些人的名单很短。然后安排时间与这些人在集体环境中相处，最好是做一些活跃的事情，比如蒙古包到蒙古包的越野滑雪或远足，或者最近一次是与其他五个人一起狩猎。

I don’t hunt very frequently, but that’s my protein for the next three to six months depending on how many meals I can replicate with the exact same protein. And those are some of, I suppose, the variables that seem to consistently deliver. But if I’m out of sorts, it’s like, “All right. Are you getting enough light in the morning? Are you getting enough exercise in the morning? Do you have your diet dialed? Are you in a place like New York City where surprise, surprise, you’ve been out and you’ve had alcohol four nights this week with your stupid friends who also do the same thing?” It’s very often the basic things and kind of removing those emergency breaks that facilitates what we’re looking for or what I’m looking for. Is that helpful?
我并不经常打猎，但这是我未来三到六个月的蛋白质来源，这取决于我能用完全相同的蛋白质复制多少顿饭。我想，这些都是能够持续提供蛋白质的变量。但如果我不在状态，那就像，"好吧。你早上的光照够吗？早上的运动量够吗？你的饮食有规律吗？"你是不是在纽约这样的地方" "惊讶地发现你这周已经出去喝了四晚的酒" "和你那些愚蠢的朋友一起" "他们也做着同样的事情"很多时候，最基本的东西和消除这些紧急的休息时间，才是我们或我正在寻找的东西。这有用吗？

Theron Barbour: Yeah. That was great. Thanks, Tim.
Theron Barbour：是的。太棒了。谢谢，蒂姆。

Tim Ferriss: Okay. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. All right. So I’m going to kind of like wind my way around here. Let’s see. Christina, would you like to go next?
Tim Ferriss：Okay.是的，当然。好的所以，我要在这里绕一圈。让我们来看看。克里斯蒂娜，你想下一个吗？

Christina Nesheva: I mean, somehow related to what you were talking about how you think about the next whatever, six, 12 months, one of the things I really admire about is your way of thinking and questioning and now particularly with kind of gen AI overtaking, for me the ability to ask the right questions, different questions, good questions is probably the more important. So I’m curious about your thoughts and how do you keep the questioning fresh?
Christina Nesheva：我的意思是，在某种程度上，与您刚才谈到的您如何看待未来无论6个月还是12个月的问题有关，我非常钦佩的一点是您的思维方式和提问方式，尤其是现在人工智能正在赶超人类，对我来说，提出正确的问题、不同的问题和好问题的能力可能更为重要。所以我很好奇你的想法，你是如何保持提问的新鲜感的？

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. Well not to get too meta, I mean that is a question I ask myself quite a bit too. So thanks for bringing it up. I’d say with questions, there are a lot of different settings for questions, first of all. You could ask me a question, I can ask the group a question. Those might be different species of questions. Asking yourself questions. Right. This can also be a different species of question. And the way I keep questions fresh, I’ll give you a simple tactical answer, is, for instance I was preparing for a podcast interview recently and I had a research doc, I had read through the bio, had asked the guest for certain topics they thought would be interesting to explore, had done my own searching, come up with some independent questions, but we all get in ruts that we don’t recognize. And those ruts aren’t necessarily a bad thing, but they’re an easy thing.
蒂姆-费里斯：是的。我的意思是，我也经常问自己这个问题。谢谢你提出来。我想说的是，对于问题，首先有很多不同的设置。你可以向我提问，我也可以向大家提问。这些可能是不同种类的问题。问自己问题。没错。这也可以是不同类型的问题。我保持问题新鲜度的方法是，我给你一个简单的战术答案，比如，我最近在准备播客访谈，我有一个研究文档，我读了一遍简介，问了嘉宾一些他们认为有趣的话题，我自己也做了搜索，想出了一些独立的问题，但我们都陷入了自己都不知道的困境。这些问题未必是坏事，但却很容易出现。

So I might have my 10 go-to questions and it’s easier to sit with those 10 than to come up with another 10, which may or may not work. So I went into ChatGPT and I said, effectively, “How might James Lipton of Inside the Actors Studio interview guest X? What are 10 questions that are variants of questions that have come up a lot in Inside the Actors Studio? Give me 10.” Boom. All right. Great. And then the next one was like, “Give me 10 more for Terry Gross interviewing the same person.” Fresh Air, right? “Give me 10 more with Charlie Rose.” And it was very, very helpful. Or 10 more with Lex Fridman. Sure. Why not. Just throw in anyone who is not me basically. And I’d be like, “Okay. I wouldn’t ask seven of these, but that’s an interesting one. And I wouldn’t have thought of phrasing it that way.” Or it’s asking a question that I think would be of service to my audience within the theme of the show, so I’m not deviating too far, not getting too far afield, but it’s coming at it from an angle that I wouldn’t have considered.
因此，我可能有我的 10 个常用问题，用这 10 个问题比想出另外 10 个问题更容易，而另外 10 个问题可能行得通，也可能行不通。因此，我进入 ChatGPT，实际上是在说："《Inside the Actors Studio》的詹姆斯-李普顿（James Lipton）会如何采访嘉宾 X？在 Inside the Actors Studio 中经常出现的 10 个问题的变体是什么？给我10个。"嘣好的Great.下一个是 "再给我10个特里-格罗斯采访同一个人的例子"。新鲜空气，对吧？"再给我10个查理-罗斯"非常非常有帮助或者再给我10个莱克斯-弗里德曼当然，为什么不呢？只要不是我的人都可以加入。我会说，"好吧，我不会问其中的七个，但这是个有趣的问题"。我可没想过要这么问"或者是问一个我认为在节目主题范围内 对观众有帮助的问题 所以我并没有离题太远，也没有离得太远 但我是从一个我从未考虑过的角度来提问的

Right. So I would say those are all approaches I take. If I find questions that I like, I save them. So you could save them to anywhere, Evernote, Notion, wherever you keep your notes, but I have documents that are basically running lists of questions and they could come from anywhere. Could be a novel. There are questions in novels that I yank. One characteristics. Another could be in an in-flight magazine if those still exist. I don’t even know if those still exist. Could be practically from anywhere. And then there are, I would say, consistent questions that I find very helpful, which you might find in some form, like The Five Minute Journal, for instance. Those are consistent prompts that work to achieve a desired result, much like a recipe. If you’re cooking something specifically, there are guidelines that tend to work repeatedly. So those are a few ways that I think about it.
是的。所以我想说，这些都是我采取的方法。如果我找到我喜欢的问题，我就把它们保存下来。所以你可以把它们保存到任何地方，Evernote、Notion，任何你保存笔记的地方，但我的文档基本上都是问题列表，它们可能来自任何地方。可能是一本小说。小说中的问题我都会摘录下来。一个特点。另一个可能是机上杂志，如果那些杂志还存在的话。我甚至不知道那些杂志是否还存在。几乎可以从任何地方。还有一些，我想说的是，我觉得非常有用的连贯问题，你可能会以某种形式找到，比如《五分钟日记》。这些都是持续性的提示，可以达到预期的效果，就像食谱一样。如果你要烹饪一些特定的菜肴，那么一些指导原则往往会反复发挥作用。以上就是我思考问题的几种方式。

Tim Ferriss: All right. Let’s hop to Josh. You want to go next?
Tim Ferriss：好的。让我们跳到乔希。你想下一个吗？

Josh: Yeah. I was going to ask if you spend your life battling tech admin stuff like we do, but that was answered pretty quickly.
乔希：是的，我本来想问你是否像我们一样，一辈子都在和技术管理方面的事情作斗争，但很快就得到了回答。

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. There’s always that stuff. There’s always that stuff. Yeah.
蒂姆-费里斯：是的。总是有那样的东西。总是有那种东西。是啊。

Josh: I guess my real question, some of the successful people you’ve interviewed have gone through long periods of being unsuccessful or rejected or bankrupt or whatever. You’ve sort of documented some of your own struggles writing the body book and some of the other things. I guess what are some of the unifying themes about those who eventually do break through and how to get out of a rut? You’ve already touched on, which was part of my question, but I think anything you could just elaborate on that please would be great.
乔希：我想我真正想问的是，你采访过的一些成功人士都经历过长时间的不成功、被拒绝、破产或其他。你在撰写《身体》一书和其他一些文章时，也记录了自己的一些奋斗经历。我想，对于那些最终取得突破的人，以及如何走出困境，有哪些统一的主题？你已经提到了，这也是我问题的一部分，但我想你能详细说明一下就更好了。

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. I can. Could you give me, if you’re open to it, you don’t have to, but a little more context for why that question? Because that could help.
蒂姆-费里斯：

Josh: I guess sort of taking a little bit of a career break as you have and thinking about things that have brought me joy in the past was certainly one thing that I’m looking to do next moves and I think the decision process that you’ve already outlined a little bit is things that bring you joy and you’ve kind of arrived at a couple core principles of things that you’re looking for your next projects to help you do. I guess just a little bit more upstream from that, how you made the decision to call time out after the 10 years and take the sabbatical and then just how you got out of the day-to-day of doing what you do so very well. And I know you’ve touched upon it’s hard to do that, but just anything on that that you could share would be helpful in terms of how you realigned your thinking to do something a little bit different, but building on what you’ve already done very well.
乔希：我想，像你一样在事业上稍作休整，并思考过去给我带来快乐的事情，肯定是我下一步要做的事情之一。我想再从上游说一下，你是如何在 10 年后决定暂停工作并休假的，以及你是如何从你所擅长的日常工作中解脱出来的。我知道你已经提到了这很难做到，但如果你能分享一下你是如何重新调整思路，做一些不同的事情，但又建立在你已经做得很好的基础上的，那将会很有帮助。

Tim Ferriss: So I’d say a few things. So I could speak to my decision to hit pause or rethink things. I suppose there are a few fundamental beliefs that led me to do that or allowed me to do that. The first is that constant motion in some respects or constant productivity, per se, is the enemy of oblique thinking. So if you’re looking at seeing a problem or a situation with fresh eyes in an uncommon way that allows you to make unique or highly leveraged decisions, when you are constantly churning, I think it requires you to be this close to the problem and therefore it’s hard to zoom out.
蒂姆-费里斯：所以我想说几件事。我可以谈谈我暂停或重新思考的决定。我想，有几个基本信念促使我这样做，或允许我这样做。首先，在某些方面，持续的运动或持续的生产力本身就是斜向思维的敌人。因此，如果你想以一种非同寻常的方式，用全新的眼光看待一个问题或一个情境，从而做出独特的或具有高度杠杆作用的决策，当你不断地搅动时，我认为这需要你如此接近问题，因此很难放大。

So for me, I had that belief to begin with that not necessarily stillness, but having a little bit of distance is necessary for me to really consider doing X before the entire rest of the world does X. Right? And I’m looking for ideally being a category of one. I don’t like competing. I don’t like competing in my professional life in this particular way. Archery or something like that, great. Compartmentalized, very clear, it’s time-bound, pass-fail, follow the points, great. But when it can become a sort of never-ending story of unquestioned ambition within say the world of podcasting, then I want to make sure there are periods built in where I have some distance. The other fundamental belief, and I’m sticking with the belief stuff because these are thoughts that we take to be true. Beliefs are thoughts we take to be true and I’m sure I’m borrowing that from someone like Byron Katie.
因此，对我来说，我一开始就有这样的信念：不一定要静止不动，但有一点距离是必要的，这样我才能真正考虑在全世界都做 X 之前做 X。我在寻找理想中的一类人。我不喜欢竞争。在我的职业生涯中，我不喜欢以这种特殊的方式进行竞争。射箭或类似的东西，很好。分门别类，非常明确，有时间限制，及格-不及格，按照分数，很好。但如果在播客的世界里，雄心壮志永无止境，那么我就想确保有一些时间让自己保持一定的距离。另一个基本信念，我坚持使用 "信念 "这个词，因为这些都是我们认为真实的想法。信念是我们认为真实的想法，我相信我是从拜伦-凯蒂（Byron Katie）这样的人那里借来的。

The belief structure is sort of the reed raft upon which everything else floats. And if you really want to have the most optionality with your direction, it’s very helpful to make the implicit beliefs explicit and look at them carefully. So the other belief that I think is helpful, and I actually know quite concretely, this is not limited to people who are in the top one percent of one percent. The world does not end if you slow down or take a break. Right? It’ll carry on just perfectly fine generally without you. Now there are constraints. If you’re saying that you want to take a break from a job that provides all the income from your family and pays the mortgage and puts food on the table, obviously there are constraints, but if you were to delete all social media from your phone and titrate down the aperture of noise and news that gets flooded into your system, you’d be fine.
信念结构就像是芦苇筏，其他一切都漂浮在上面。如果你真的想在你的方向上有最大的选择性，那么把隐含的信念明确化并仔细研究它们是非常有帮助的。因此，我认为另一个信念也很有帮助，实际上我也很具体地知道，这并不局限于那些最顶尖的百分之一的人。如果你放慢脚步或休息一下，世界就不会毁灭。对不对？一般来说，没有你，世界也会照样运转。现在有一些限制。如果你说你想从一份为你的家庭提供所有收入、支付房贷和餐桌上食物的工作中抽身出来，显然是有限制的，但如果你从你的手机中删除所有社交媒体，减少涌入你的系统的噪音和新闻的光圈，你就会没事。

Hey, you’d probably be better off. So the hyperkinetic feeling of modern society is not conducive or necessary for making decisions with outsized outcomes if that makes sense. So those are a few kind of underpinning beliefs and there are people who prove this, right? A lot of the people that I most respect, in their profession, like a Daniel Day-Lewis or something, they disappear for five years at a time. They come back, no one’s like, “Where’s Daniel Day-Lewis? What are his latest tweets about politics?” Nobody gives a shit. As long as you’re really good at craft X, you are going to have I think a good number of options. So I’m meandering a little bit, but help me — 
嘿，你可能会过得更好。所以说，现代社会的亢奋情绪不利于或不需要做出有重大结果的决策，如果这能说得通的话。以上就是一些基本信念，也有人证明了这一点，对吗？很多我最尊敬的人，在他们的职业中，比如丹尼尔-戴-刘易斯什么的，他们每次都会消失五年。他们回来时，没人会问 "丹尼尔-戴-刘易斯在哪儿？他最近关于政治的推文是什么？"没人在乎只要你擅长X领域，你就会有很多选择。所以我说得有点迂回了，不过帮帮我吧

Josh: It’s helped.
乔希：这很有帮助。

Tim Ferriss: Focus. Yeah. Is there a particular aspect of your question that you’d like me to hit?
蒂姆-费里斯：专注。你有什么特别的问题想让我回答吗？

Josh: I guess I think you’re really hitting on a lot of the stuff and like you said earlier, some of the stuff about hitting, how do you think about things that bring you joy and then you realign with your beliefs to get there. I think this is really helpful. Thanks. Yeah. I mean, it’s inspiring that someone as successful as you at something has done this and taken stock and sort of step back because it kind of gives the rest of us hope to do the same thing. Even if it’s just something that you’re just saying, “All right. I’m going to take a step back,” and then do similar to what I’m doing and some other stuff maybe in a different way with a different lens, it’s just helpful to think through that to get the rest of us to the happy place.
乔希：我想我觉得你真的说到了很多东西，就像你之前说的，一些关于打击的东西，你如何思考那些能给你带来快乐的东西，然后你再与你的信念保持一致，从而达到目的。我觉得这真的很有帮助。谢谢。我的意思是，像你这样成功的人做了这样的事，并进行了总结和后退，这很鼓舞人心，因为这给了我们其他人做同样事情的希望。即使这只是你在说 "好吧。我要退一步"，然后做类似于我正在做的事情和其他一些事情，也许用不同的方式，不同的镜头，它只是通过思考，让我们其他人到快乐的地方是有帮助的。

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. Well, happy to try to assist. I definitely don’t have everything figured out. I would say also that if you seem, and this comes back to Christina’s question on questions, if you’re hitting a dead end or you don’t seem to be able to reliably answer a question and it’s causing you stress, right? For instance, how can I find joy? Let’s just say that you’ve been banging your head against that question and it hasn’t been producing great results. One thing you can do that I will sometimes do is, “Okay. Maybe that’s not a good question, but there’s a feeling that I’m going for. If I look back at the past, what are some of the antecedents to joy?”
蒂姆-费里斯：是的。我很乐意提供帮助。我肯定没有把所有事情都搞清楚。我还想说的是，如果你似乎，这又回到了克里斯蒂娜关于问题的提问上，如果你遇到了死胡同，或者你似乎无法可靠地回答一个问题，这给你造成了压力，对吗？比如，我怎样才能找到快乐？这么说吧，你一直在用脑袋撞击这个问题，但效果并不好。有一件事你可以做，我有时也会这样做："好吧。也许这不是个好问题，但我有一种感觉。如果我回顾过去，快乐的前因是什么？"

So maybe the question isn’t like, “How do I create more joy?” It’s, “How do I create some precursor to that?” And for me, one of those is a sense of losing the self or the dissolution of the self.
所以问题可能不是 "我如何创造更多快乐？"而是 "我怎样才能创造更多的快乐？"对我来说，其中之一就是失去自我或自我解体的感觉。

Josh: Right. That’s great. Thanks.
Josh: Right.That's great.谢谢。

Tim Ferriss: That’s another way that I think about these things is antecedents to X. 
Tim Ferriss：这是我思考这些问题的另一种方式，即 X 的前因后果。

Tim Ferriss: Right. All right. We’re just going to work our way through. Wade, would you like to go next?
Tim Ferriss： 对。好的。我们将继续努力。韦德，你想下一个发言吗？

Wade: One, I just want to say thanks for everything you do. Like, I genuinely appreciate it. Love the content, love what you’re about, learn a lot. You’ve been like a gym companion for me for nine years. There’s nothing better than a good Tim Ferriss podcast in the gym. So genuinely appreciate that. I think my question is around, and maybe I’m wrong, it’s just an observation, but I’ve listened to you for a long time. Seems like maybe the edges have softened a little bit in regards to your life and maybe personality. Seems like maybe there’s a hint of spirituality that’s evolved a bit since I’ve been listening. So is there anything in particular that has helped maybe soften the edges and is there a different perspective on spirituality than there used to be?
韦德：首先，我想对你所做的一切表示感谢。我真的很感激。我喜欢你的内容，喜欢你的工作，学到了很多东西。九年来，你就像我的健身伴侣。没有什么比在健身房听 Tim Ferriss 的播客更好的了。所以真心感谢你。我想我的问题是，也许我错了，这只是一个观察，但我听了你很长时间。似乎在你的生活和个性方面，你的棱角变得柔和了一些。自从我听你的歌以来，似乎你的精神世界也有了一些变化。那么，是否有什么特别的东西帮助软化了你的棱角，你对灵性的看法是否与以往不同？

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. I would say I’ve definitely softened a lot in the last five years, especially, and maybe I’m just getting older and tired. Who knows? But if we take that off the table as an explanation, although I think a lot of stuff comes down to, I was talking to a friend and they were like, “Oh, yeah. I’ve just become so much chiller in conflict resolution with my partner after 10 years, but it took five years,” and I was like, “Maybe it’s just fatigue.” I was sort of being a jerk about it and just being playful, but if I take that off the table, I mean there are a few things that were proactive and also just life experiences I think that contribute to that.
蒂姆-费里斯：是的，我想说的是，在过去的五年里，我的心态肯定软化了很多，特别是在过去的五年里，也许我只是变老了，变累了。谁知道呢？但如果我们不把这个作为解释的话，虽然我觉得很多东西都归结于，我和一个朋友聊天，他们说："哦，是的。我和我的伴侣相处了 10 年，在解决冲突方面我变得更冷静了，但这花了我 5 年的时间。"我当时想，"也许这只是疲劳。"我当时有点像个混蛋，只是在耍嘴皮子，但如果我把这个问题抛开，我的意思是，有一些事情是主动的，也有一些生活经历，我认为这些都是造成这种情况的原因。

So I would say one is seeing dozens upon dozens upon dozens of close friends or podcast guests who are materially successful beyond belief, have all the prestige you could possibly imagine in a business capacity, who are nonetheless dissatisfied or chasing something like a hungry ghost, if that makes sense. And the reason that’s relevant is that a lot of the piss and vinegar and sort of spitfire focus that I’ve had I think has been predicated subconsciously on some belief that, with enough of X success, that success resolves, I’m not going to say all issues because I never would’ve said that, but most issues and that’s just not true. It’s just not true at all.
因此，我想说的是，我看到数十位好友或播客嘉宾，他们在物质上取得了超乎想象的成功，在商业上拥有你能想象到的所有声望，但他们仍不满足，或像饿鬼一样追逐着什么，如果这能说得通的话。之所以说这是有意义的，是因为我所关注的很多问题，我认为都是潜意识里认为，只要取得了足够的成功，成功就能解决所有的问题，我不会说所有的问题，因为我从来不会这么说，但大多数问题都能解决，但事实并非如此。这完全不是真的。

I would say also what I’ve observed in very wealthy people is that they build, they build, they build, their number moves, they make X amount of money, then they want 10x, and then, “No, it’s as soon as I have a 100x,” and then it’s, “As soon as I have 1,000x, then I can chill out and I’ll know everything’s going to be okay.” And if you put that under scrutiny, when I’ve seen older people and I’ve spoken to say grandparents or people who are building dynastic wealth, it seems like, this is going to sound obnoxious, but I’ll just say it, which is like if you give your kids a ton of money, let’s just say that’s more than 10 or 20 million bucks, people who are making just obscene amounts of money, building incredible amounts of wealth, there is an amount of money past a certain point that seems to just fuck up your kids horribly.
我还想说的是，我在非常富有的人身上观察到的是，他们建立，建立，建立，他们的数字移动，他们赚了X数量的钱，然后他们想要10倍，然后，"不，它是只要我有100倍，"然后它是，"只要我有1000倍，然后我可以冷静下来，我会知道一切都会好起来的。"如果你仔细观察，当我看到年长的人，我和祖父母或正在建立王朝财富的人交谈时，似乎，这听起来很讨厌，但我就说出来，这就像如果你给你的孩子一大笔钱，让我们只说超过1000万或2000万美元，那些赚的只是猥琐的钱，建立令人难以置信的财富的人，有一个金额超过一定程度的钱，似乎只是他妈的你的孩子可怕。

I’m not saying that’s always the case, but the, “I just want to create a better and brighter future for my kids and give them the things I didn’t have.” There’s a point where more is a lot less from what I’ve seen. It’s just my personal impression. So if you realize that the professional stuff is not going to solve all your problems or all your challenges, let’s just say, and if you realize accumulating Scrooge McDuck levels of wealth and then donate it all to your kids, if it turns into a serious amount of money, is probably a bad idea. It’s not just neutral. You might actually really screw your kids up. Then it raises the question why around a lot, at least around the business stuff. And I think it contributes in addition to other things that I’ll mention to taking it seriously, but not too seriously. Taking it less seriously. Does that make sense? And when you take those things less seriously, if you have been inclined to take them very seriously and consequently yourself very seriously, I think by taking those things less seriously, you start to take yourself a little less seriously.
我并不是说情况总是如此，但 "我只想为我的孩子创造一个更美好、更光明的未来，给他们我没有的东西"。在我看来，多一事不如少一事。这只是我的个人印象。所以，如果你意识到专业的东西并不能解决你所有的问题或所有的挑战，这么说吧，如果你意识到积累了Scrooge McDuck级别的财富，然后全部捐给了你的孩子，如果变成了一笔巨款，这可能是个坏主意。这不仅仅是中性的。你可能真的会把你的孩子们搞得一团糟。至少在商业方面，这就会引发很多 "为什么 "的问题。我认为，除了我会提到的其他事情之外，这也有助于认真对待它，但不要太认真。不那么认真。有道理吗？当你不那么认真地对待这些事情时，如果你一直倾向于非常认真地对待这些事情，并因此非常认真地对待自己，我认为通过不那么认真地对待这些事情，你会开始不那么认真地对待自己。

These conversations also about legacy and leaving something to be remembered. They’re helpful in some cases, like those myths, but it’s like how many people can name the most powerful people in the world when the Assyrians were running around? How many people can name the most powerful Babylonian, right? Alexander the Great, what’s his full name? Nobody knows. So the idea, especially with the amount of information overwhelm that is our current day, the idea of also creating some permanent record of yourself that just persists over more than 10 years after you’re dead, if you’re lucky, is kind of silly. I mean, it’s a little silly. But we all need reasons to do things.
这些对话也是关于遗产和留名的。它们在某些情况下是有帮助的，比如那些神话，但就像有多少人能够说出亚述人四处活动时世界上最强大的人的名字？有多少人能说出最强大的巴比伦人的名字？亚历山大大帝，他的全名是什么？没人知道。因此，尤其是在信息泛滥的今天，如果你幸运的话，还想为自己创造一些永久的记录，在你死后十多年还能继续存在，这种想法有点愚蠢。我是说，是有点傻。但我们做事情都需要理由。

And actually, I think, Josh, you were asking about people who failed and failed and then succeeded. I think myths are very helpful here. So coming up with myths, whether that is, “When I have enough money, it’s going to solve everything.” Great. That’s an incredible incentive. Or the myth that I am the only person in the world who’s destined to create this amazing piece of art. Okay, maybe that’s true, but it’s probably a myth. But it can be a very empowering myth. And it makes me think of Seth Godin who said, I’m paraphrasing, but, “Past a certain point, money is a story. So pick a story you can live with that benefits you instead of handicaps you.”
实际上，我认为，乔希，你问的是那些失败后又成功的人。我认为神话在这里很有帮助。因此，提出一些神话，无论是 "当我有足够的钱时，就能解决一切问题"，还是 "当我有足够的钱时，就能解决一切问题"。好极了这是个令人难以置信的激励。或者是 "我是世界上唯一一个注定要创造出这件艺术品的人 "的神话。好吧，也许这是真的，但很可能只是个神话。但这可能是一个非常有力量的神话。这让我想起塞斯-戈丁（Seth Godin）说过的一句话，虽然我是转述，但他说："过了某一点，金钱就是一个故事。所以，选择一个你能接受的故事，它能让你受益，而不是阻碍你。"

Then on the spirituality side — I generally steer away from that term. It’s a useful term because there isn’t a great replacement in some conversations, but it can get used in a lot of different ways. But I would say that my openness to — it’s not even openness, it’s like my recognition that the more we know, the more we realize we don’t know, I think has opened my mind, as have a lot of strange experiences that I’ve had with, whether it’s psychedelics or otherwise, it’s not limited to that.
在灵性方面--我一般不使用这个词。它是一个有用的术语，因为在某些对话中并没有一个很好的替代品，但它可以被用在很多不同的方面。但我想说的是，我对 "我们知道的越多，我们意识到我们不知道的也就越多 "的开放态度--这甚至不是开放态度，而是我认识到这一点，我认为这开启了我的心智，就像我在迷幻药或其他方面的许多奇特经历一样，并不局限于此。

And I explore the fringes, right? I mean, I really do, and I try to keep my skeptic’s hat on. And I think I’m actually quite good at not fooling myself, and I will ask, what are the alternate explanations for this? How might this otherwise be explained? Et cetera, et cetera. But there’s a lot of strange stuff out there. It doesn’t mean it’s magic, but it does highlight sometimes the limits of our current abilities to measure and freeze-frame things for scientific studies.
我探索边缘地带，对吧？我的意思是，我真的这样做， 我试图保持我的怀疑论者的帽子。我觉得我其实很擅长不自欺欺人，我会问，有什么其他的解释吗？还有什么其他解释？等等等等。但外面有很多奇怪的东西。这并不意味着它有魔力，但它有时确实凸显了我们目前在科学研究中测量和定格事物能力的局限性。

So those are all contributors, I would say, in the bucket, broadly speaking of not taking myself too, too seriously. And if my work is a subset of myself, then it applies to that too, would be having a lot of friends die. I’ve had lots of friends pass away. I’ve had people get very sick. I’ve seen people succumb to dementia. As you get older and you see more and more of this, it just highlights the fact that this ride, it’s not a long ride and I’m not convinced that death is the end necessarily. But still, we don’t know. So let’s not spend the entire roller coaster worrying about whatever Trump said on your phone. Rollercoaster’s not going to last forever.
因此，我可以说，这些都是 "不把自己看得太重 "的贡献者。如果我的作品是我自己的一个子集，那么它也适用于此，那就是有很多朋友去世。我有很多朋友去世了。我有很多朋友得了重病。我见过有人患上痴呆症。随着年龄的增长，你会看到越来越多这样的事情，这恰恰凸显了一个事实：这段旅程并不漫长，我不相信死亡一定是终点。但我们还是不知道。所以，我们不要在整个过山车过程中都在担心特朗普在你手机上说了什么。过山车不会永远持续下去。

So focus, taking the view, poke the person next to you, try to share a laugh. ‘Cause it’s just not that long. And it’s, even if you come to a quote unquote natural end in old age, it’s not long. But sadly, I’ve lost a lot of friends and acquaintances, certainly, to car accidents. I mean, you name it. You just don’t know.
所以，集中精力，欣赏美景，戳戳旁边的人，试着分享欢笑。因为时间并不长。而且，即使你在年老时自然结束，时间也不长。但不幸的是，我失去了很多朋友和熟人，当然，车祸。我的意思是，你的名字。你只是不知道。

So I think the softening is around a lot of that. The softening also comes from, I think, exploring different modalities for trying to metabolize the childhood abuse that I’ve talked about elsewhere. And that requires a degree of cultivating compassion for yourself that I historically have not paid a lot of attention to. And I think as you, it’s hard for me to see any way around developing compassion, more compassion for yourself if you want to genuinely express compassion for other people. I’m not sure there’s a workaround there. I’ve thought about this quite a bit. It goes both ways. But fundamentally, I think that’s a homework assignment for a lot of people, that if, I’m not going to say solved, but if that is paid sufficient attention has all these downstream benefits. And one of which I think is just a general softening, I would say. So those are the things that come to mind.
因此，我认为这种软化在很大程度上是围绕着这一点的。我认为，这种软化还来自于探索不同的方式，以尝试代谢我在其他地方谈到的童年虐待。这就要求我们在一定程度上培养对自己的同情心，而我历来并不太关注这一点。我认为，就像你一样，如果你想真正地表达对他人的同情，我很难看到有什么方法可以培养对自己的同情，更多的同情。我不知道这里面有没有变通的办法。我想了很久。它是双向的。但从根本上说，我认为这是很多人的家庭作业，如果，我不想说解决了，但如果得到足够的重视，就会有所有这些下游的好处。我认为，其中一个好处就是可以说是一种普遍的软化。我想到的就是这些。

Wade: Thanks, man. That was awesome.
韦德：谢谢，伙计。太棒了。

Tim Ferriss: Yeah.
蒂姆-费里斯：是的。

Wade: Appreciate it.
韦德：非常感谢。

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, my pleasure. All right, so the faces have moved around a little bit. I’ll try to keep track. I think I can keep track of who’s gone, who hasn’t. Since Tim is up in the corner next to me, I’m going to go with Tim. You want to go next?
蒂姆-费里斯：是的，我很荣幸。好了，大家的表情都有点变化。我会尽量跟上的。我想我能记下谁走了，谁还没走。既然蒂姆在我旁边的角落里 我就和蒂姆一起去了你想下一个吗？

Tim: Yeah, again, thanks for all you do. It’s been an amazing journey, from your books through your podcast journey and CØCKPUNCH. Love the coffee.
蒂姆：是的，再次感谢您所做的一切。从你的书到你的播客之旅，再到CØCKPUNCH，这是一段奇妙的旅程。我喜欢咖啡。

Tim Ferriss: I’ve got some right over there. I’m still drinking it. Yeah, yeah.
Tim Ferriss：我那边还有一些。我还在喝呢。我还在喝呢。

Tim: So I had a question that was kind of tuned to all these longevity protocols with AI and all the latest research that’s coming out as far as the compounds, the protocols, how do you keep up? Through you, I’ve been introduced to Peter Attia, Andrew Huberman, Layne Norton, and a lot of other great contemporary, leading-edge, science-backed, information seekers and deliverers. So how do you approach handling that, especially with this, we’re in the age of AI now. So that was going to be my question. That’s what I submitted. But on the topics that you just have been going through, and it’s in my own life I’m realizing these instances when people are passing. My dog Pepper passed away just like two months ago. What do you do with grief and how is that something that is, as far as your approach, something that you see is helpful, something to be avoided? I mean, you’re kind of all through it with the information you’ve just been walking us through, but just kind of with grief. Because you only have so much time, right? Thanks.
蒂姆：所以我有一个问题，是关于所有这些与人工智能有关的长寿协议，以及所有关于化合物和协议的最新研究，你是如何跟上的？通过你，我认识了彼得-阿蒂亚（Peter Attia）、安德鲁-休伯曼（Andrew Huberman）、莱恩-诺顿（Layne Norton），以及其他许多伟大的当代、前沿、科学、信息寻求者和传递者。那么，你是如何处理这些问题的呢，尤其是我们现在正处于人工智能时代。这就是我的问题。这就是我提交的问题。但关于你刚刚经历过的话题，在我自己的生活中，我也意识到了人们去世的这些情况。我的狗 Pepper 就在两个月前去世了。你是如何对待悲伤的，就你的方法而言，你认为悲伤是有帮助的，还是应该避免的？我的意思是，你已经把所有的信息都告诉我们了，但你还是有点悲伤。因为你只有这么多时间，对吗？谢谢。

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, for sure. So on the grief side, I definitely don’t think it’s bad thing. I think it’s part of the human condition, no expert. But I would say a few things. That this kind of comes back to Wade’s question about spirituality in the sense, and I will come back to the longevity protocols and so on, might as well talk about that. But I think that the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater in some respects, with the stripping away of religion from, let’s just call it modern secular society. And what I mean by that is not that we should believe in a guy with the beard in the clouds. I’m not saying that. But that there are cultural milestones, in some cases rites of passage, these markers along the way on this journey of life that are codified in, say, religion, and in some cases that can be very helpful.
蒂姆-费里斯：是的，当然。所以在悲伤方面，我绝对不认为这是坏事。我认为这是人类生存条件的一部分，没有什么专家能做到这一点。但我想说几件事。从某种意义上说，这又回到了韦德关于精神的问题上，我会再回到长寿协议等问题上，不妨谈谈这个问题。但我认为，在某些方面，随着宗教从现代世俗社会中剥离，婴儿已经被连同洗澡水一起倒掉了。我的意思并不是说，我们应该相信一个在云端留着胡子的人。我不是这个意思。但是，在人生旅途中，有一些文化里程碑，在某些情况下，有一些仪式，这些标记被编纂成宗教，在某些情况下，这可能是非常有帮助的。

So for instance, mourning periods will sometimes be very carefully outlined. And a group of people will agree with this type of death you mourn for this period of time, here’s the protocol, maybe wear black. And so you can have a feeling of completeness and perhaps closure within the construct of this societal norm. We don’t really have that. It’s left up to everybody to create our own. And I’m not saying this for everybody. There are certainly plenty of religious folks out there. But by and large, let’s just say in places where I spend a lot of time, Austin, New York, California, people are somewhat cut adrift. And sure, they might be able to tell you all about different philosophers they read in college and listened about on podcasts, but fundamentally there’s a sense of being somewhat unmoored, I would say.
例如，哀悼期有时会有非常细致的规定。一群人会同意这种类型的死亡，你会在这段时间内哀悼，这是协议，也许会穿黑色衣服。这样你就会有一种完整的感觉，或许在这种社会规范的建构下，你就可以结束了。我们并没有这种感觉。这需要每个人自己去创造。我并不是对所有人都这么说。外面肯定有很多信教的人。但总的来说，在我经常待的地方，奥斯汀、纽约、加利福尼亚，人们都有些漂泊不定。当然，他们也许能告诉你他们在大学里读过的不同哲学家的故事，在播客上听过的不同哲学家的故事，但从根本上说，我想说的是，他们有一种有点不着边际的感觉。

So the grief topic is a really good one, and it serves as kind of a microcosm of the macro, it reflects — the challenges within grief I think reflect broader societal challenges. The book On Grief and Grieving is probably the most common recommendation that I hear from, say, podcast guests. So I think that could be worth checking out.
因此，悲伤是一个非常好的话题，它是宏观的一个缩影，它反映了--我认为悲伤中的挑战反映了更广泛的社会挑战。这本书 On Grief and Grieving可能是我从播客嘉宾那里听到的最常见的推荐。所以我认为这本书值得一读。

On the longevity protocols, just to take a hard left, I would say I really don’t try to stay up to date with the longevity protocols in part because there’s so much garbage and there are so many influencers quote unquote trying to peddle whatever rev-share stem cell clinic they’ve partnered with in Tijuana or whatever might be the case. It’s very difficult to separate fact from fiction if you don’t have a really reliable source. I would say just follow Peter, honestly. Peter Attia for that, specifically, that’s really his wheelhouse. He focuses on health span.
关于长寿方案，我想说的是，我真的没有尝试去了解最新的长寿方案，部分原因是有太多的垃圾，有太多的有影响力的人试图兜售他们在蒂华纳或其他地方合作的干细胞诊所的收益分成。如果你没有真正可靠的消息来源，就很难区分事实与虚构。老实说，我觉得跟着彼得走就对了。彼得-阿蒂亚（Peter Attia），具体来说，这是他的专长。他专注于健康跨度。

I’ve known him since 2009. I’ve spent time with his doctors in the clinic. I’ve gone through Biograph, which he’s involved with, and so on. So I have a high degree of confidence in Peter, and I’ve seen him repeatedly turn down offers for very lucrative business arrangements in exchange for promoting X, Y, or Z. And he just won’t do it if he doesn’t really feel 100 percent comfortable supporting their conclusions and claims. So I would say pay attention to that. And frankly, the more we learn, the more the basics are the basics for a reason. It’s like creatine’s been around for decades. This is nothing new. I just took some before doing this conversation, right? It’s present in a lot of food that we consume naturally. It’s a known quantity in the body, pretty well understood. As soon as you start getting into the bleeding edge where it’s like, well, these people are going to Honduras and injecting themselves with Phellostatin, and look at these amazing before and after photos. But oh, yeah, it does kind of turn off your FSH and so might make you infertile in these animal models. Something like that seems to happen. But look how awesome his eight-pack looks. It’s like, I’m not sure you want to be the third monkey shot into space with that stuff as a human subject.
我从 2009 年就认识他了。我在诊所里和他的医生们相处过。我看过他参与制作的 Biograph 公司，等等。因此，我对彼得很有信心，我看到他多次拒绝了以推广 X、Y 或 Z 为交换条件的利润丰厚的商业安排。所以，我想说的是，要注意这一点。坦率地说，我们学得越多，基础知识就越有理由成为基础知识。就像肌酸已经存在了几十年。这并不新鲜。我只是在谈话前吃了点，对吧？它存在于我们自然摄入的大量食物中。它在人体内是一个已知的量，很好理解。一旦你开始研究它，就会发现 这些人跑到洪都拉斯给自己注射黄体素 看看这些神奇的前后对比照片但是哦，是的，它确实会让你的前列腺素分泌减少 所以可能会让你在这些动物模型中不育类似的事情似乎会发生。但看他的八块腹肌多棒啊这就像，我不知道你想成为 第三猴子射入太空 这东西作为人类的主题。

So I tend to stay away from the bleeding edge. I used to be very aggressive with this, certainly in my 4-Hour Body days. I was very aggressive with this. And I think in part because I was fascinated in part because I didn’t foresee how nagging certain problems could be. It’s like, yeah, if you fuck up and have a problem that causes orthopedic issues in your elbow, it’s not a foregone conclusion that that’s going to be fixed a year later. You might just have like tendinosis for the next 40 years. Oops.
因此，我倾向于远离出血边缘。我曾经在这方面非常激进，当然在我的4小时身体时代也是如此。我在这方面非常激进。我觉得部分原因是我很着迷，部分原因是我没有预见到某些问题会如此唠叨。这就好比，如果你搞砸了，导致你的肘部出现骨科问题，这并不是一年后就能解决的定论。你可能在接下来的40年里都会有腱鞘炎。哎呀

So I do pay more attention to the downside, and I would say that in general, one of the ways that I frame this for myself is not what can I do that will make me live longer, but what can I subtract that might make me live longer or just live more healthfully, right? So for instance, I mean, this is going to sound maybe funny, and there’s a lot of pseudoscience wackadoodle stuff out there about this, but just minimizing exposure to plastics and phthalates and things like that. I think it seems very conclusive at this point that from an endocrine perspective and so on, these are just very, very bad news. So it’s like, don’t heat things in plastic, right? Use more glass. These are very, very basic things. Use filtration, have proper filtration for your water. If you don’t have really, really good filtration for your water, you might want to take a look at it. Because even in very rural areas, you could have, for instance, in some of the mountainous areas I’ve spent time, high levels of arsenic because there used to be mining. And if you’re way out in the country, you might have higher concentrations of the groundwater pesticides, things like this from agriculture.
所以，我更关注坏处，我想说的是，一般来说，我给自己定下的一个框架不是我能做什么让我更长寿，而是我能减少什么让我更长寿或更健康地生活，对吗？举个例子，我是说，这听起来可能有点滑稽，外面有很多关于这方面的伪科学怪论，但只要尽量减少接触塑料和邻苯二甲酸盐之类的东西就可以了。我认为，从内分泌的角度来看，这些都是非常不好的消息。所以说，不要用塑料加热东西，对吧？多用玻璃。这些都是非常非常基本的东西。使用过滤装置，对水进行适当过滤。如果你的水没有非常非常好的过滤装置，你可能需要检查一下。因为即使是在非常偏远的农村地区，你也可能有，例如，在我待过的一些山区，砷的含量很高，因为那里曾经有采矿业。如果你在乡下，地下水中的杀虫剂浓度可能会更高，比如农业产生的杀虫剂。

So just paying really close attention to that kind of stuff. Exercise, it’s like the cure-all right? It’s like zone two weight training, just like you’ve just got to do it. Or you don’t have to do it, but people are always glad to have done it, I would say. And it feels good, for me at least. It’s the most consistent mood elevator for sure in addition to cold exposure. And these tools, I think if someone is on the verge of being diabetic or diabetic, there could very well be a role for these drugs like Ozempic or Mounjaro, et cetera.
所以，要非常注意这些事情。运动就像万能药，对吧？就像二区负重训练一样，你必须去做。你也可以不做，但人们总是很高兴做了运动。而且感觉很好，至少对我来说是这样。这是除了寒冷之外最稳定的情绪提升方式。这些工具，我认为如果有人濒临糖尿病或糖尿病，这些药物，如Ozempic或Mounjaro等，很可能会发挥作用。

But they’re not free lunches. To come back to the blog post I wrote some time ago, I think it’s just called “No Biological Free Lunches.” It’s like there are trade-offs here. And if you don’t know what the trade-offs are, it’s not because they don’t exist, it’s just because we have not identified them as consistently yet. But if it’s a matter of life and death and you need to lose weight, hey, then you do a risk calculus. But in general, the stuff that I’m doing for longevity is the stuff I’ve been doing for 10 plus years: creatine, exercise, try not to stuff your fucking face every time you sit down to eat, which is my biggest challenge. I love eating, God, do I love eating. But these are known problems. So those are my thoughts on the longevity stuff.
但它们不是免费午餐。回到我前段时间写的那篇博文，我想它就叫 "没有生物免费午餐"。这就好比是有取舍的。如果你不知道什么是权衡，那并不是因为它们不存在，只是因为我们还没有一致地确定它们。但如果事关生死，你需要减肥，那么你就需要进行风险计算。但总的来说，我为长寿所做的事情就是我十多年来一直在做的事情：肌酸、锻炼、每次坐下来吃饭时尽量不要吃得太饱，这是我最大的挑战。我喜欢吃，天啊，我真的很喜欢吃。但这些都是众所周知的问题。以上就是我对长寿的一些看法。

Tim: Thanks, Tim.
蒂姆：谢谢，蒂姆。

Tim Ferriss: Yeah. And sorry about your dog, man. I think about that all the time. Got my pup right next to me. It’s just like, oh, God. I think I’m going to cry on planes every time I think about it. So I’m sorry. All right, Joel? You want to hop in?
蒂姆-费里斯：是的。关于你的狗，我很遗憾。我一直在想这件事。我的小狗就在我旁边。这就像，哦，上帝。每次想到这个，我都觉得自己要在飞机上哭出来了。所以，我很抱歉。好吧，乔尔？你想跳吗？

Joel Cherrico: Hey, Tim and other Tim, sorry about your dog too. I lost a cat two months ago, also had her for 14 years, had her from when she was a kitten. And something that really helped me, I mean, I spent a lot of time with that cat, right? I lived in a small apartment for many years, just me and her. And now we have some land, and I buried her. I dug her four feet down. I dug the hole myself with my wife. It was nighttime, and digging a hole. And we really think a lot about environmentalism.
Joel Cherrico：嗨，蒂姆和其他蒂姆，你的狗也很不幸。我两个月前失去了一只猫，也养了 14 年，从它还是一只小猫时就开始养了。有一件事对我很有帮助，我是说，我花了很多时间和那只猫在一起，对吗？我在一间小公寓里住了很多年，只有我和她。现在我们有了一些土地 我把她埋了我把它挖了四英尺深我和妻子一起亲手挖的坑当时是晚上，我们在挖洞。我们真的想了很多关于环保的事情。

‘Cause we’re not religious, so we just really like thinking about nature. And so to bury her, not cremate her, to get her body from the vets, and to not put her in a plastic bag, and dig her deep enough where animals don’t get to her and she’s on our land and she’s going to biodegrade, return to the Earth. Yeah, I’d wear black for a couple days and see it as mourning. I know she was just a cat, but I think there’s that gravestone, that meme that from a hundred years ago where she was more of, she was enough of a human to be a comfort in times of stress and sadness, even though she was just a cat. That helped us. That was our process, two months ago, coincidentally. So just thought I’d share that, Tim.
因为我们不信教 所以我们非常喜欢思考大自然所以要埋葬她，而不是火化 她的尸体要从兽医那里弄来 不要把她装在塑料袋里 把她挖得足够深 这样动物就不会接近她了是的，我会穿几天黑色的衣服，把它看作是哀悼。我知道她只是一只猫 但我觉得有墓碑 那是一百年前的传说 她更像是一个人这对我们很有帮助。巧合的是，那就是我们两个月前的经历。所以我就想和大家分享一下，蒂姆。

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, thanks.
蒂姆-费里斯：是的，谢谢。

Joel Cherrico: Yeah. So question. So I’ve got a pre-prepared question that coincidentally Josh, I saw he was asking about creative projects and he had a copy, because we do the video, which is pretty cool, of Rick Rubin’s The Creative Act. I saw that copy on Josh’s Zoom. So my question is about that. I think a lot about creativity. I’ve been making a living as an artist for a number of years. And in his book The Creative Act, Rick talks about the aesthetic. It’s one of the chapters. And he’s describing creative projects where they give you a primal feeling of warmth in your body. And he says that that’s a great creative compass to recognize when you’re searching for a breakthrough, when you’re in the slog of bad work and mediocrity and experiments that are going nowhere. But when you feel ecstatic about something, that’s a great compass for trying to discover greatness or a breakthrough or he says, it might feel, he says like an answered prayer.
Joel Cherrico：是的。那么问题来了。我有一个事先准备好的问题，巧合的是，乔希，我看到他在问关于创意项目的问题，他有一份里克-鲁宾的《创意行为》的拷贝，因为我们做视频，这很酷。我在乔希的 Zoom 上看到了那本书。所以我的问题就是关于这个。我经常思考创意问题。多年来，我一直以艺术家为生。在他的书The Creative Act中，里克谈到了审美。这是其中一章。他描述了一些创意项目，这些项目让你有一种身体发热的原始感觉。他说，当你在寻找突破时，当你沉浸在糟糕的工作、平庸和毫无进展的实验中时，这是一个很好的创意指南针。但当你对某件事情感到欣喜若狂时，这就是一个很好的指南针，可以帮助你发现伟大或突破。

And I’ve certainly felt like glimpses of it at times. But I’m curious in your past, present, or your future on what you’re working on, when you have felt the aesthetic, the ecstatic in — ecstatic, sorry, the ecstatic in creative projects, and especially in the future, what you think in the next projects might be, what gives you that sense of the ecstatic?
当然，我有时也会有这样的感觉。但我好奇的是，在你过去、现在或未来的工作中，当你感受到美学，感受到创意项目中的狂喜--狂喜，抱歉，是狂喜，尤其是在未来，你认为下一个项目可能是什么，是什么给了你那种狂喜的感觉？

Tim Ferriss: I think about this a lot, not in those terms. I mean, I know Rick decently well and it makes sense that that would be in the book. I haven’t read the entire book, but it makes a lot of sense it would be in there. I think a lot about a few things, not just feeling that. I would say for me it’s a quickening of sorts. If I’m engaged with a certain type of project or discussion about a potential project, and I’ve got the kind of two cups of coffee with no jitters, just that extreme comfortable focus, like a calm but intense focus that is energy giving, I pay a lot of attention to that. I also think about clearing the deck so that you can actually pick up that signal.
蒂姆-费里斯：我想了很多，但不是从这些角度考虑的。我的意思是，我对里克非常了解，书中写到这一点也是合情合理的。我还没有读完整本书，但我觉得书里写得很有道理。我想了很多，不光是感觉。我想说，对我来说，这是一种加速。如果我在参与某个项目或讨论某个潜在项目时，我喝了两杯咖啡，没有任何紧张，只是非常舒适地专注，就像一种平静但强烈的专注，这种专注是一种能量，我会非常关注这一点。我也会考虑清理桌面，以便你能真正接收到那个信号。

For instance, if you consume too many stimulants, too much coffee, too much this, too much matcha, whatever the hell it might be. In a sense you’re raising the level of, gain might not be the right word, but the level of static. So it becomes harder to pick out that signal. You might get a lot of false positives. Or you might be irritable and then get a lot of false negatives where you’re just like, “Oh, this is making me creepy and crawly.” And it’s like, “No, you had your fifth double espresso for the day, dummy.”
例如，如果你摄入了太多的兴奋剂、太多的咖啡、太多的这个、太多的抹茶，不管是什么。从某种意义上说，你提高了 "增益 "的水平，用 "静态 "这个词可能不太恰当。这样就更难找出信号了。你可能会得到很多误报。或者你可能会很烦躁 然后得到很多假阴性信号 你就会想 "哦 这让我毛骨悚然"然后它就会说 "不 你今天喝了第五杯双倍浓咖啡 笨蛋"

So for me personally, I try to keep track of that and paying attention to the physiology, which is not inherently natural for me, or it doesn’t come in reflexively. Because I’ve spent so much time looking at the spreadsheet analysis side of things, being really analytical. But if I get off a phone call and I’m drained, or if I get off a phone call, I’m like, “Yeah, fuck yeah, I want to do another one of those.” It’s sometimes that simple. And it’s not that I know with certainty that X marks the spot. This is the project. When it’s done and it looks like this, this is going to be the ecstatic moment. It’s not so much that for me, it’s like a scent trail. It’s like an energetic scent trail, if that makes sense.
因此，就我个人而言，我试着去跟踪和关注生理机能，这对我来说并不是天生的，或者说我并没有条件反射地去关注生理机能。因为我花了太多时间研究电子表格分析方面的东西，非常善于分析。但如果我打完一个电话就觉得没劲了，或者我打完一个电话就想，"是啊，他妈的是啊，我想再做一个"。有时就是这么简单我并不是很确定X就是我的目标这就是项目当它完成并且看起来像这样的时候，这就是我欣喜若狂的时刻。对我来说，这并不像一条气味线索。这就像一个精力充沛的气味痕迹，如果这能说得通的话。

And there’s a description, I can’t remember whose description it was, about writing a novel. And the metaphor was writing a novel is driving across the country starting at night with your headlights on. It’s like you can’t see your destination, but you don’t need to see your destination. You just need to see far enough in front of you to kind of navigate your way and adjust. So I would say for me, those are some of the ways I think about it. I mean, CØCKPUNCH, as ridiculous as it is, that was one of those where I was just so energized by the prospect of digging into the art specifically, and the fantasy, and what that would do from a freedom perspective in writing, fiction versus highly researched nonfiction. I was like, I don’t even know. That seems a dead end on some, this could be a huge mistake. But I’m getting so much of a physical response. I was like, fuck it. This seems like not the kind of thing to ignore. And that liberated so much energy that I could apply not just to that project, but to other projects, that I have no regrets about it whatsoever. 
有一段关于写小说的描述，我不记得是谁的描述了。他比喻说，写小说就像开着大灯，在夜里横穿整个国家。就像你看不到目的地，但你不需要看到目的地。你只需要看到前方足够远的地方，就能掌握方向，做出调整。对我来说，这就是我思考问题的一些方式。我的意思是，《CØCKPUNCH》，虽然很荒唐，但这是其中之一，我只是被挖掘艺术的具体前景和幻想，以及从写作自由的角度来看，小说与高度研究的非虚构小说相比，会做什么，所激发。我当时想，我甚至不知道。这对某些人来说似乎是个死胡同，这可能是个巨大的错误。但我得到了这么多的身体反应。我就想，去他妈的这似乎不是那种可以忽略的事这让我解放了很多精力，我不仅可以用在这个项目上，还可以用在其他项目上，我一点都不后悔。

Joel Cherrico: I’m curious if you’ve ever gotten into Lord of the Rings? Because it’s such a cultural phenomenon and Lord of the Rings has had a big impact on my life in terms of fantasy and with CØCKPUNCH and D&D, do they have a Hero’s Journey Bible, Jesus like Lord of the Rings does? Did you think about that at all with CØCKPUNCH? And does D&D have that, like a singular figure like Frodo carrying the ring? Have you ever inserted that or thought about that?
Joel Cherrico：我很好奇，你是否接触过Lord of the Rings？因为它是一种文化现象，指环王在奇幻方面对我的生活产生了很大影响，还有CØCKPUNCH和D&；D，他们有没有像指环王那样的《英雄之旅圣经》？CØCKPUNCH 有没有考虑过这个问题？D&D 有这样的情节吗？您是否插入过或考虑过这个问题？

Tim Ferriss: D&D, as far as I know, does not have that. Lord of the Rings, I mean, I was just in Oxford for a week in the UK and was looking at original handwritten notes from Tolkien and looking at his scripts of Elvish. Spending time in pubs where he and C.S. Lewis and others would hang out.
蒂姆-费里斯：D&D，据我所知，没有这样的内容。《魔戒之王》，我是说，我刚刚在英国牛津待了一周，看到了托尔金的原始手写笔记，还看到了他的精灵语脚本。在他和 C.S. Lewis 等人常去的酒吧里消磨时光。

So I am deeply, deeply interested by Tolkien. I think a good dungeon master will have some felt sense of the Hero’s Journey as they’re weaving adventures for people that are playing out in real time. So the circumstances and the players and the module don’t always conform to all is lost and then there’s the redemption. It might just be all is lost and then you’re fucking dead. So it doesn’t always have the Star Wars, “Yeah, go, R2D2!” moment.
因此，我对《托尔金》深感兴趣。我认为一名优秀的地下城管理员在为玩家编织冒险时，会对 "英雄之旅 "有一定的感受，因为冒险是实时进行的。因此，环境、玩家和模块并不总是符合 "一切都失去了，然后是救赎 "的要求。它可能只是一切都失去了，然后你他妈的死了。因此，它并不总是有星球大战，"耶，去吧，R2D2！"的时刻。

Joel Cherrico: Do you have a singular hero in CØCKPUNCH?
Joel Cherrico：在CØCKPUNCH 中，你有一个奇特的英雄吗？

Tim Ferriss: As it’s laid out right now, that’s not made clear. In my mind, if I were to — sow that with some of the recent art I put on Instagram, I said, “Okay, we’re going to call this Legends of Varlata.” And so I just took the CØCKPUNCH out, right? So let’s say it’s Legends of Varlata. There is a character that I keep coming back to in my own mind, too. And it’s not a Jesus character, but it’s sort of like an Ender’s Game, Frodo-ish character is Tyrolean. So the son who is in the last few episodes of the podcast. So Tyrolean and his father, that particular dynamic, I have an entire, if somebody was like, “Here’s a hundred million bucks, go make something awesome.” I’m like, I know exactly what I would make. This is what I would do and it would be amazing.
蒂姆-费里斯：就目前的布局而言，这一点并不明确。在我看来，如果我把它和我最近在 Instagram 上发布的一些艺术作品放在一起，我就会说："好吧，我们就把它叫做 Legends of Varlata。于是我就把CØCKPUNCH去掉了，对吗？所以，比方说是 Legends of Varlata。在我自己的脑海中，也一直回想着一个人物。他不是耶稣，但有点像《安德的游戏》（Ender's Game）中的弗罗多，是蒂罗尔人。他是播客最后几集里的儿子。如果有人说："给你一亿美金，你去拍一部超棒的电影吧。"我就会说："我完全知道。我想，我知道我会做什么。这就是我会做什么 它将是惊人的。

I know this sounds ridiculous and just so arrogant to say, but it’s like, no, based on working with the concept artist, the feedback I can give, I can storyboard well enough to kind of Frank Miller-esque. I can be a primary writer, but I can also have, I have the sort of directorial cinematic sense for how things might be framed visually. Also that I can work really well with creatives who are working with animation, moving pictures, whatever.
我知道这听起来很荒谬，说出来也很傲慢，但就像，不，基于与概念艺术家的合作，我能给出的反馈，我可以很好地进行故事板的制作，就像弗兰克-米勒（Frank Miller）那样。我可以是一个主要的编剧，但我也有电影导演的感觉，知道如何在视觉上构建故事。此外，我还能与从事动画、活动影像等工作的创作者很好地合作。

So I would say the core relationship that would drive that movie would be the father-son. And nothing tragic has happened yet, but if I were to continue my writing for, I don’t know, a few more thousand words, stuff would get very exciting and super off the rails really quickly. And then there would be things to solve, right? Something like that.
所以我认为，推动这部电影的核心关系应该是父子关系。现在还没有发生什么悲剧，但如果我继续写下去，我也不知道，再写个几千字，事情就会变得非常刺激，而且很快就会脱离轨道。然后就有事情要解决了，对吧？差不多吧

Joel Cherrico: Cool. Sounds fun.
Joel Cherrico：酷。听起来很有趣。

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, I think it would be fun. It’s just figuring out how to go from Rooster NFTs to a hundred million dollars animated film. It’s just a couple of hops in between that I need to figure out. But seeing for instance, and I mean I’m not a gaming studio with gajillions of dollars in revenue. But Arcane, seeing what League of Legends and Riot Games did with Arcane. If you guys haven’t seen Arcane on Netflix, go watch it. It’s bananas. I mean, if you want to see something where the most off-the-rails budget for something animated, it’s really remarkable. And there’s a YouTube series on the making of, which I would also recommend checking out. All right.
蒂姆-费里斯：是的，我认为这会很有趣。我只是想知道如何从《Rooster NFTs》到一部投资上亿美元的动画电影。我只是需要弄清楚这中间的几个跳跃。但举个例子，我的意思是，我并不是一个拥有数亿美元收入的游戏工作室。但Arcane, 看到League of Legends 和 Riot Games 对Arcane 所做的一切。如果你们还没在 Netflix 上看过 Arcane ，那就去看吧。它太疯狂了。我的意思是，如果你们想看预算最不靠谱的动画片，那它真的很了不起。YouTube上还有一个关于制作过程的系列，我也建议你去看看。好的

Let’s see, Chris with the katana and a Fender Stratocaster maybe in the background.
让我看看，克里斯拿着武士刀，背景可能是芬达 Stratocaster。

Chris Dengler: Yeah. Yeah, that was a practice — should have been more conscious maybe of the background. I’m not sure.
克里斯-登格勒：是的。是的，这是一种做法--也许应该更注意背景。我不确定。

Tim Ferriss: Oh, I like it. I’m into it.
蒂姆-费里斯：哦，我喜欢。我很喜欢。

Chris Dengler: No, it is a practice sword. So, well, where do you put it? You put it there. It kind of helps people when they come in the office, it kind of sets the tone a little, I guess. But thanks, first, for putting this together. I love the format. It’s kind of neat to meet all different people who we share an interest in what you’ve been doing and that kind of thing.
克里斯-登格勒：不，这是一把练习剑。那么，你把它放在哪里？就放在那儿。当人们来到办公室时，它可以帮助他们，我想，它可以给人们定下一些基调。首先，谢谢你把这个放在一起。我喜欢这种形式。我喜欢这种形式，能遇到对你的工作感兴趣的人，感觉很好。

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, my pleasure. I’m having fun.
蒂姆-费里斯：是的，我的荣幸。我玩得很开心。

Chris Dengler: I was wondering, in your case, thinking about your 10 years and that kind of thing. For me, if I looked at the last 10 years for myself, there’s an underlying theme for me that I really found that it wasn’t that I was an impatient person, but I found that really developing a high level of patience with both myself and others, it seemed to drag everything else along in a positive way, whether it be compassion or empathy or that kind of thing. And if I had to pick a theme in the last 10 years for myself, that would probably be it. That really might account for positive changes and growth in that regard. I was wondering if over the last 10 years you found a common theme the same way?
克里斯-登格勒：我想知道，就您而言，您是如何看待自己的 10 年以及诸如此类的事情的。对我来说，如果我回顾一下自己过去的 10 年，我真的发现了一个潜在的主题，那就是我并不是一个没有耐心的人，但我发现，真正培养出对自己和他人的高度耐心，似乎会以一种积极的方式拖动其他一切，无论是同情心、同理心还是诸如此类的东西。如果要我为自己挑选一个过去 10 年的主题，那可能就是这个。这确实可能是这方面积极变化和成长的原因。我想知道，在过去的 10 年里，你是否也发现了一个共同的主题？

Tim Ferriss: Last 10 years, well I could use some lessons in patience, that’s never been my strong suit. I would say my mom has made jokes about my impatience since I was a little kid. So I guess I’m the counter example. Although that’s been a project, but if I’m looking at a through line over the last 10 years, I would say it is developing more awareness in different capacities so that I can self-regulate my physiological response.
蒂姆-费里斯：过去 10 年，我需要一些耐心方面的教训，这从来都不是我的强项。从我小时候起，我妈妈就拿我的不耐烦开涮。所以我想我就是个反面教材。虽然这是一个项目，但如果我把过去 10 年看成一条主线的话，我会说这是在不同能力方面培养更多的意识，这样我就能自我调节生理反应。

That’s a very wordy thing to say, but to explain it, I could say that my challenge has been since childhood that I have a very hyper vigilant system. So my sympathetic nervous system, just the noradrenaline and adrenaline, all these things kick off at the slightest provocation. Could be just someone dropping a book in a hotel in the room next to me when I’m asleep, and then all of a sudden heart rate’s, whatever, 120 and I can’t get back to sleep, that type of thing. And that can come up also in conversation if I’m talking to someone and they say something that I create a story in response to and the story is very upsetting, and then something in my physiology is fucked. And then the physiology feeds back into the cognitive loop.
说起来很拗口，但为了解释清楚，我可以说，我从小就面临着一个挑战，那就是我有一个非常高度警惕的系统。因此，我的交感神经系统、去甲肾上腺素和肾上腺素，所有这些东西在受到最轻微的刺激时就会启动。可能只是有人在我睡着的时候把一本书掉在了我旁边的酒店房间里，然后我的心率就会突然达到 120，然后我就再也睡不着了，诸如此类。在谈话中也会出现这种情况，如果我在和别人聊天时，他们说了一些让我产生反应的故事，而这个故事又非常让人难过，那么我的生理机能就会受到影响。然后生理反应会反馈到认知循环中。

So the way I’ve explained it, way I explained it to another therapist recently because this was a CBT context. I was like, well, we’re going to work on the thoughts. And I said, we can work on the thoughts, but I’m not convinced the thoughts are where things start. I actually think that it’s possible my physiology gets activated and then it’s a state in search of a story. That’s the phrasing I used. It’s a state in search of a story. You have this uncomfortable feeling or this strong feeling. And because we’re meaning making machines, we don’t like uncertainty. It’s like, well, let me go find a story that could explain that. And maybe it’s a story about myself. Maybe it’s a story about the world, maybe it’s a story about somebody else.
所以我解释它的方式，我最近向另一位治疗师解释它的方式，因为这是一个 CBT 的背景。我说，好吧，我们就从思想入手。我说，我们可以从思想入手，但我不认为思想是事情的起点。实际上，我觉得有可能是我的生理机能被激活了，然后就进入了寻找故事的状态。我就是这么说的。这是一种寻找故事的状态。你有一种不舒服的感觉或者强烈的感觉因为我们是制造意义的机器 我们不喜欢不确定性这就像，好吧，让我去找一个故事来解释它。也许是关于我自己的故事。也许是关于世界的故事 也许是关于别人的故事

So I would say the last 10 years has been trying to cultivate an awareness with different tools, meditation, psychedelic therapies, reading books like Awareness by Anthony De Mello, so that in the moment I can at least be aware of what’s happening.
因此，在过去的十年里，我一直在尝试用不同的工具来培养自己的意识，冥想、迷幻疗法、阅读安东尼-德梅洛（Anthony De Mello）所著的意识等书籍，这样我至少能在当下意识到正在发生什么。

So for instance, I have been using this app, which is what I used to get back on the train for the last handful of weeks. Kevin Rose, good buddy, Kevin Rose introduced me to Henry Shukman, and I had Henry on the podcast twice. He is a Zen meditation and master. Now, I don’t like that master term, but he’s one of, I want to say three or four people authorized to teach this particular school of Zen in the United States.
比如说，我一直在使用这个应用程序，在过去的几周里，我就是用它重新回到火车上的。凯文-罗斯（Kevin Rose）是我的好朋友，他介绍我认识了亨利-舒克曼（Henry Shukman），我还在播客中邀请了亨利两次。他是一位禅修大师。我不喜欢 "大师 "这个词，但他是美国三四个被授权教授禅宗的人之一。

And he then developed, started to develop an app. I invested in it, but it was early days kind of back-of-a-napkin thing. And now it’s built out, it’s called The Way if you want to try it. And I’ve been using it 10 minutes a day, twice a day. And I had a really, really challenging conversation today with someone I’m very close to. And I could feel my physiology just getting, I have so much background with this person and I was just like, oh, fuck, here we fucking go again. It’s one of those. I was just like, ah — and I was able to, and this is going to seem very rudimentary, but as I was having this really strong physiological response, just to go body as I’m listening to the person just be like, body, I’m just noting that my body is having this extreme response. And by noting it, not trying to suppress it necessarily, just noting it, having that drop in intensity so that I could engage in a way that was less reactive.
然后他开发了一个应用程序。我对其进行了投资，但这只是早期的 "纸上谈兵"。现在它已经开发出来了，叫做The Way，如果你想试试的话。我每天使用十分钟，一天两次。今天，我和一个我很亲近的人进行了一次非常非常具有挑战性的谈话。我能感觉到我的生理机能正在逐渐恢复，我和这个人有很多背景，我当时就想，哦，操，又来了。这是其中之一。我当时就想，啊--而且我能够做到，这看起来很初级，但当我有这种非常强烈的生理反应时，我在听这个人说话的时候，我的身体就像，身体，我只是注意到我的身体有这种极端的反应。通过注意到它，而不是试图压制它，只是注意到它，让它的强度下降，这样我就能以一种反应较小的方式参与其中。

So I would say the project then for the last 10 years has been developing an awareness of an appreciation of how much my physiology drives everything that happens up here. And paying more attention to that, not just trying to cross-examine the thoughts because the thoughts are, I think products sometimes of a rapid heart rate and things like that. Does that answer the question?
所以我想说，在过去的 10 年里，我的项目一直在培养一种意识，一种对我的生理机能在多大程度上推动着这里发生的一切的认识。我更多地关注这一点，而不只是试图盘问我的想法，因为我认为我的想法有时会让我心跳加速，诸如此类。这样回答问题了吗？

Chris Dengler: Absolutely. That’s great. Thanks.
克里斯-登格勒：当然。那太好了。谢谢。

Tim Ferriss: All right, cool. Yeah, thanks for the question. All right. I think we have one person left, Lee, I believe. Would you like to go? Hi, there.
Tim Ferriss：好的，很好。是的，谢谢你的问题。好的。我想我们还剩下一个人，应该是李。你想发言吗？你好

Lee Cole: Hi, from Canada, I was having technical difficulties when everyone was doing their introductions. So I guess my question is a two-part or part-and-a-half question. So I’m a 47-year-old man with a five-year-old daughter. So I started late in life and all I wish for her is to see her find something that lights her up. Anything. I guess that ties into me and my life right now as I’m wishing that so badly for her, I realize that I need to make a career change. I don’t love my job, so I decided to go with a clean slate and not even any of my past doesn’t matter. I want to start to figure out something that lights me up. Is there a few questions that you ask yourself if you ever feel stuck trying to figure out what that is? 
李-科尔：你好，我来自加拿大，在大家做自我介绍时遇到了技术问题。所以我想我的问题是一个由两部分组成的问题，或者说是一个半问题。我今年 47 岁，有一个 5 岁的女儿。我的人生起步较晚，我对她的所有愿望就是希望她能找到能点亮她的东西。什么都行我想这与我和我现在的生活有关，因为我非常希望她能找到这样的事情，我意识到我需要改变职业。我不喜欢我的工作，所以我决定从头开始，过去的一切都不重要了。我想开始寻找能点亮我的东西。如果你在想什么事情的时候感到困惑，你会问自己几个问题吗？

Tim Ferriss: So you’re feeling stuck at the moment in terms of choosing a path forward for yourself.
Tim Ferriss：所以，在为自己选择前进的道路时，你现在感觉被卡住了。

Lee Cole: To find something that lights me up. I’m lucky right now I have six months off. So I can think about my next move, where I want to go, what I want to do. Any little ember I get, and I follow down that path I think to myself, okay, well, is AI going to do this in five years? How much effort do I want to put into it? And I’m just trying to, if there’s a few questions I can ask myself or a few things I can do just to find that thing.
李-科尔（Lee Cole）：找到能点亮我的东西。我很幸运，现在我有六个月的假期。所以我可以考虑我的下一步行动，我想去哪里，我想做什么。只要有一点微光，我就会沿着这条路走下去，我就会想，好吧，人工智能五年后还能做这个吗？我要为此付出多少努力？我只是想，如果有几个问题我可以问自己，或者有几件事情我可以做，只是为了找到那件事。

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, for sure. What are some of the options that you’re considering at the moment?
蒂姆-费里斯：是的，当然。你目前正在考虑哪些选择？

Lee Cole: So one of them was architectural and house design. But I’m thinking in five years that’s going to be pretty much taken by AI, I’m sure. That’s the thing. I’m stuck. I used to be in the restaurant business. I don’t want nothing to do with that anymore. I owned a restaurant for a while and I’m just kind of at that point where the next decision I make, I really want to get excited about it. And it could be anything. I’m all about learning things and just, I need to find that spark. So I’m into architecture, and that’s what I thought was going to be the path. And then I thought, okay, well I want to spend — 
李-科尔：建筑和房屋设计是其中之一。但我想，五年后，这肯定会被人工智能所取代。这就是问题所在。我被卡住了。我以前是做餐饮业的。我不想再干这行了。我开了一段时间的餐馆，现在我已经到了下一个决定的时候了，我真的想让自己兴奋起来。这可能是任何事情。我喜欢学习，我需要找到火花。所以我进入了建筑行业，这就是我认为的未来之路。然后我又想，好吧，我想把时间花在

Tim Ferriss: So I don’t have all the answers of course, but my thinking around AI, because this is a common concern, right? You’re not alone in this. A lot of people are wondering what will be gobbled by AI. And the short answer is nobody has an idea. Nobody really knows, and it’s easy to become paralyzed given that there’s so much uncertainty around it. But my feeling is there are certain career paths, let’s just say, that are already being eaten, right? If you were to say, “I’m going to be a logo designer and earn my money on Fiverr.” I’d say that’s probably going to get consumed within the next very short period of time.
Tim Ferriss：当然，我没有所有的答案，但我对人工智能的思考，因为这是一个共同的问题，对吗？你并不孤单。很多人都在想，人工智能会吞噬什么？简而言之，没人知道。没有人真正知道，而且由于有太多的不确定性，人们很容易陷入瘫痪。但我的感觉是，有一些职业道路，比方说，已经被吃掉了，对吗？如果你说，"我要做一个商标设计师，在Fiverr上赚钱"我想说，这可能会在未来很短的时间内被吃掉。

But if you have the flexibility to consider paths, I would pay more attention to the quickening than speculation about AI. I don’t think there is, number one, there’s no right path. So you can take some pressure off yourself when you realize that everybody’s making it up as they go along. There’s no one right answer in the mathematical proof of your life. Does that make sense? It’s going to be a trial and error process like it is with everything that we do in life.
但如果你有考虑路径的灵活性，我会更多地关注加速，而不是对人工智能的猜测。我认为，第一，没有正确的道路。所以，当你意识到每个人都在随波逐流时，你可以减轻一些压力。在你人生的数学证明中，没有唯一的正确答案。这样说有道理吗？这将是一个不断试错的过程，就像我们在生活中所做的每一件事一样。

So I would say that — with something like architectural design for instance, I actually don’t think it is a foregone conclusion that it’s all going to be consumed by AI. Now in part because there are open questions around this technology. For instance, will people want to watch movies that are purely generated by AI that make them cry? Are people going to want to cry knowing that no human was involved, that it was just based on a large language model plus other AIs being trained on certain data sets, finding patterns, and then producing a desired emotion? Are people going to want that? Or are people going to want, for instance, I mean people still buy handmade shoes, right?
所以我想说，以建筑设计为例，我并不认为人工智能会取代建筑设计。部分原因是，这项技术还存在一些悬而未决的问题。比如，人们会愿意看纯粹由人工智能生成的电影吗？如果没有人类的参与，只是基于一个大型语言模型，再加上其他人工智能在特定数据集上进行训练，找到模式，然后产生一种想要的情绪，人们会想哭吗？人们会想要这样吗？或者说，人们是否会想要，比如说，我的意思是，人们仍然会购买手工制作的鞋子，对吗？

People still buy artwork produced by artists. People still pay for many things that they could pay less for if they were willing to go to the lowest cost provider. So there is a market for that. And I think that in questions of taste and conversation and so on, most people are not going to be do-it-yourself-ers with everything in their lives acting as the direct interface with AI. What I could see is that you end up, let’s just say, working in architectural design and instead of having three employees, you have three really well-trained AIs that you pay $19 to a $100 a month for that, take the place of those employees and help you with various aspects of the job. I could see that. In the same way that you might use something like Freshbooks for accounting and you’d be like, well, I’m not the best draftsman, but I can do this, this, and this. And my value is in interfacing with the client, figuring out these following things. And then these steps of the process are going to be well-handled by an AI.
人们仍然购买艺术家制作的艺术品。人们仍在为许多东西买单，如果他们愿意去找成本最低的供应商，他们可以花更少的钱买到这些东西。因此，市场是存在的。我认为，在品味和对话等问题上，大多数人都不会自己动手，将生活中的一切作为与人工智能的直接接口。我可以预见的是，比方说，如果你从事建筑设计工作，你将不再拥有三名员工，而是拥有三名训练有素的人工智能，你可以为此每月支付 19 美元到 100 美元不等的费用，他们将取代员工的位置，帮助你完成各方面的工作。我可以这么认为。就像你用 Freshbooks 做会计一样，你会说，我不是最好的绘图员，但我可以做这个、这个和这个。我的价值在于与客户沟通，找出以下这些问题。然后，人工智能就能很好地处理流程中的这些步骤。

So I think that that’s entirely possible. But my uninformed perspective is that the magical skill, it’s not magical, but the powerful skill in any rapidly changing world, which includes AI, it’s not limited to that. There’s a lot of stuff. I mean, the rate of change is just going parabolic in so many different fields. So it’s not going to be limited to AI, is adaptability and confidence in your ability to trial and error and ultimately kind of figure it out. So I do think that — a lot of this hinges also on how we think about worst case scenarios, right?
所以我认为这是完全有可能的。但我不了解的观点是，神奇的技能并不神奇，但在任何瞬息万变的世界里，包括人工智能在内，强大的技能并不仅限于此。还有很多东西。我的意思是，在许多不同的领域，变化的速度都在呈抛物线上升。所以，它不会仅限于人工智能，而是适应能力和对自己试错能力的信心，以及最终弄明白它的能力。所以我认为，这很大程度上取决于我们如何看待最坏的情况，对吗？

So I don’t know anything about your personal setup, but let’s just say you have some savings, right? And you have a methodical plan for handling costs associated with your daughter and you live in Canada. So unlike in the US there may be some things covered by your fine government that we don’t come across as easily here. Then you may have more room to experiment than you give yourself credit for, if that makes sense? You may have more safety nets and the worst case may not be that bad.
我对你的个人情况一无所知，但可以说你有一些积蓄，对吗？而且你有一个有条不紊的计划来处理与你女儿相关的费用，而且你住在加拿大。因此，与美国不同，你们的政府可能会提供一些我们在这里不容易遇到的保障。那么，您可能比您自己认为的有更多的尝试空间，如果这有意义的话？你们可能有更多的安全网，最坏的情况可能也没那么糟。

So for instance, you could do, and this is available on the blog, if you just go to tim.blog/ted, I think there’s the TED talk on fear-setting. And then there’s the text from The 4-Hour Workweek on fear-setting. Just to do that exercise. And what you may realize is, let’s say worst case, AI eats architectural design. But you get three or four years of feeling really gratified by your work. You’re learning a ton, you’re interacting with people you really respect, and it’s like we all have to deal with bullshit, right? It’s not going to be all kittens and rainbows, but overall you’re like, “Wow, this is so much better than running that restaurant X number of years ago.”
因此，举例来说，你可以这样做，这可以在博客上找到，如果你去tim.blog/ted，我想那里有关于恐惧设置的TED演讲。然后还有《4小时工作周》中关于恐惧设置的文字。做这个练习。你可能会意识到，假设最坏的情况是人工智能吃掉了建筑设计。但你会有三四年的时间对自己的工作感到非常满意。你会学到很多东西，你会和你真正尊敬的人交流，就像我们都得面对废话一样，对吧？虽然不会全是小猫和彩虹，但总的来说，你会觉得 "哇，这比 X 年前经营那家餐厅好多了"。

And then AI eats it, and you’re like, “Okay, now I have to start over.” Would you regret having done it? Maybe not, right? It depends a lot on what the worst case looks like when you make it granular. And the only way you’re going to figure that out, or at least the only way I can figure it out, is trying to put it on paper. And figure out, “What are the worst things that could happen? “How could I decrease the likelihood of those things happening?” Next column, “What could I do to get back on my feet?”
然后大赦国际把它吃了 你就会想 "好吧 现在我得重新开始了"你会后悔这么做吗？也许不会，对吧？这在很大程度上取决于当你把它细化时，最坏的情况是什么样的。而唯一能让你搞清楚的办法，或者说至少是我唯一能搞清楚的办法，就是把它写在纸上。然后想一想，"可能发生的最糟糕的事情是什么？"我怎样才能降低这些事情发生的可能性？"下一栏，"我该怎么做才能重新站起来？"

Okay, so let’s say you try that and you’re like, “Fuck, that didn’t work. I need to figure out what’s next, but in the meantime, I need to make some money.” Could you do something in your current industry? Could you, worst case you’re like, “Oh, I really don’t want to do it, but I’m going to consult for people who own restaurants for a period of time to make ends meet and then I’ll figure out my next move.” Probably, right? So I would say a place that might help you get unstuck, and this is true for me as well, is doing the fear-setting exercise and also realizing that very few moves are fatal. Very, very, very few. So those are my thoughts on that.
好吧，假设你试过了，然后你想，"操，这不管用。我得想想下一步该怎么做，但与此同时，我得赚点钱。"你能在目前的行业里做点什么吗？你能不能，最坏的情况是你想，"哦，我真的不想干了，但我要为那些开餐馆的人提供一段时间的咨询，以维持生计，然后我再想我的下一步"。很有可能，对吧？所以我想说，有一个地方可能会帮助你摆脱困境，这对我来说也是如此，那就是进行恐惧设置练习，同时认识到很少有举动是致命的。非常非常非常少。这就是我的想法。

Lee Cole: Awesome. Thanks so much.
Lee Cole：太棒了。非常感谢。

Tim Ferriss: Yeah, you’re welcome.
蒂姆-费里斯：是的，不客气。

Tim Ferriss: All right guys, well we’ve been going for a minute here, and it’s time for me to go get some food since I had basically mixed nuts and sweet potato fries my whole day of food. Which is not going to necessarily help me live to be 150, but we all have our off days. So I’m going to go try to get a proper meal. And really nice to meet you all, and spend time with you all and see some of you for not the first time in the case of a few folks who were here earlier. So have a wonderful evening and a great weekend, and thanks for being part of the experiment.
蒂姆-费里斯：好了，伙计们，我们已经进行了一分钟，我也该去吃点东西了，因为我一整天的食物基本上都是混合坚果和红薯条。这不一定能让我活到 150 岁，但我们都有不顺心的时候。所以我要去吃点东西了。很高兴见到大家，和大家共度美好时光，有些人已经不是第一次来这里了。祝大家有一个美好的夜晚和周末，感谢大家参与到实验中来。

The Tim Ferriss Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world with more than one billion downloads. It has been selected for "Best of Apple Podcasts" three times, it is often the #1 interview podcast across all of Apple Podcasts, and it's been ranked #1 out of 400,000+ podcasts on many occasions. To listen to any of the past episodes for free, check out this page.
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