对话｜复旦大学博物馆郑奕：博物馆与基于实物的教育 Dialogue | Fudan University Museum's Zheng Yi: Museums and Object-Based Education

2024年国际博物馆日主题为“博物馆致力于教育与研究”（Museums for Education and Research），重点强调了文化机构在提供全面教育体验方面的关键作用。放眼国内外，教育早已成为博物馆的首要目的和功能，这始于2007年国际博协对“博物馆”的全新定义。复旦大学文物与博物馆学系教授、博导，复旦大学博物馆馆长郑奕长期致力于博物馆教育研究并出版多本专著。
The theme for International Museum Day 2024 is "Museums for Education and Research," emphasizing the crucial role of cultural institutions in providing comprehensive educational experiences. Both domestically and internationally, education has long been the primary purpose and function of museums, a trend that began with the International Council of Museums' new definition of "museum" in 2007. Professor Zheng Yi, a professor and doctoral advisor in the Department of Cultural Heritage and Museology at Fudan University, and the director of the Fudan University Museum, has long been dedicated to museum education research and has published several monographs.

在国际博物馆日来临之际，澎湃新闻就博物馆教育的发展现状和存在问题、时下热门的研学旅行等话题专访郑奕博士。她提到，博物馆供给独一无二的、“基于实物的教育”，这是其他社会教育机构所不具备的资源和优势；对博物馆而言，收藏和研究等幕后工作是基础和前提，其发展的终极目标是促使博物馆更好地于台前发挥展示和教育等公共文化服务角色，以飨更多受众；研学热潮下，当前很多所谓“研学游”并不是真正意义上的，博物馆在其中扮演的角色还很有限。
On the occasion of International Museum Day, The Paper interviewed Dr. Zheng Yi on topics such as the current state and issues of museum education development, and the popular study tours. She mentioned that museums provide unique, "object-based education," which is a resource and advantage that other social education institutions do not possess. For museums, behind-the-scenes work such as collection and research is the foundation and prerequisite. The ultimate goal of their development is to enable museums to better play their roles in public cultural services such as display and education, to benefit more audiences. Amid the study tour craze, many so-called "study tours" are not truly meaningful, and the role of museums in them is still very limited.

澎湃新闻：2024年国际博物馆日主题为“博物馆致力于教育与研究”（Museums for Education and Research），重点强调了文化机构在提供全面教育体验方面的关键作用。我们可以从哪些维度对其进行解读？反映博物馆怎样的发展趋势？
The Paper: The theme of International Museum Day 2024 is "Museums for Education and Research," emphasizing the key role of cultural institutions in providing a comprehensive educational experience. From which dimensions can we interpret this? What development trends of museums does it reflect?

郑奕：今年其实是国际博物馆协会33年来首次将教育和研究列为国际博物馆日的主题，以强调文化机构在提供全面教育体验方面的关键作用。作为两大核心职能，教育和研究对于博物馆的公共文化服务职能发挥和可持续发展至关重要。
Zheng Yi: This year is actually the first time in 33 years that the International Council of Museums has listed education and research as the theme of International Museum Day, to emphasize the key role of cultural institutions in providing a comprehensive educational experience. As two core functions, education and research are crucial for the public cultural service functions and sustainable development of museums.

上海博物馆东馆 Shanghai Museum East Pavilion

值得一提的是，自2020年起，每年的国际博物馆日主题都对联合国可持续发展目标中的部分内容进行积极响应，因为国际博协期望与联合国共同缔造充满活力与希望的世界。2024年，国际博协的重点关注点包括“目标4”：优质教育——确保包容和公平的优质教育，让全民终身享有学习机会。
It is worth mentioning that since 2020, the theme of International Museum Day each year has actively responded to some of the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals, as the International Council of Museums hopes to create a vibrant and hopeful world together with the United Nations. In 2024, the key focus of the International Council of Museums includes "Goal 4": Quality Education - ensuring inclusive and equitable quality education and promoting lifelong learning opportunities for all.

法国奥赛博物馆 Musée d'Orsay, France

放眼国内外，“教育”早已成为博物馆的首要目的和功能，这始于2007年国际博协对“博物馆”的全新定义，还可从2022年的修订版定义中可观。此外，施行于2015年的《博物馆条例》——中国博物馆行业首部全国性法规也持同样的导向。事实上，博物馆比起中小学等正式教育机构，属于非正规教育机构，并供给独一无二的、“基于实物的教育”，这是其他社会教育机构所不具备的资源和优势。
Looking domestically and internationally, "education" has long been the primary purpose and function of museums. This began with the new definition of "museum" by the International Council of Museums in 2007, and can also be seen in the revised definition of 2022. Additionally, the "Museum Regulations" implemented in 2015, the first national regulation in China's museum industry, also holds the same orientation. In fact, compared to formal educational institutions like primary and secondary schools, museums belong to informal educational institutions and provide unique "object-based education," which is a resource and advantage that other social educational institutions do not possess.

与此同时，“研究”曾长期作为博物馆的首要目的和功能而存在。但目前，我国博物馆的科研属性和能力整体都不强，这从始于2008年的全国博物馆定级评估和后续的运行评估结果中可见。希望我国博物馆在从事科研工作时，能够更拥抱合作、更信息公开并且为社会及其发展服务等，而非完全囿于文博圈内部或是单体馆内部。对博物馆而言，收藏和研究等幕后工作是基础和前提，其发展的终极目标是促使博物馆更好地于台前发挥展示和教育等公共文化服务角色，以飨更多受众。
Meanwhile, "research" has long been the primary purpose and function of museums. However, currently, the research attributes and capabilities of museums in our country are generally not strong, as can be seen from the national museum grading evaluation that began in 2008 and subsequent operational evaluation results. It is hoped that when engaging in research work, museums in our country can embrace more cooperation, be more open with information, and serve society and its development, rather than being completely confined within the museum circle or individual museums. For museums, behind-the-scenes work such as collection and research is the foundation and premise, and the ultimate goal of their development is to better play the role of public cultural services such as display and education in the foreground, benefiting more audiences.

澎湃新闻：十多年前你就开始博物馆教育研究，当时有什么契机？你在著作《博物馆教育活动研究》中提到了当时我国博物馆教育活动存在的一些问题，比如我国博物馆长期以来“重展”不“重教”，教育活动局限于展览这一单一手段、博物馆只重视观众参观阶段的教育活动，博物馆教育活动管理方式粗放等问题，十几年过去了，回看这些问题有没有得到改变？博物馆教育活动的现状如何？
The Paper: You started researching museum education more than ten years ago. What was the opportunity at that time? In your book "Research on Museum Education Activities," you mentioned some problems with museum education activities in our country at that time, such as the long-standing focus on exhibitions rather than education, the limitation of educational activities to the single means of exhibitions, the focus of museums only on educational activities during the audience's visit, and the rough management of museum education activities. Looking back after more than ten years, have these problems been resolved? What is the current state of museum education activities?

郑奕：博士期间，我前往美国乔治﹒华盛顿大学博物馆学系学习博物馆教育等，并在全美及全世界最大的博物馆集群——史密森博物学院做深度研究。这段经历及收获成为我博士论文《博物馆教育活动研究——观众参观博物馆前、中、后三阶段教育活动的规划与实施》的重要组成部分并助力我在博士期间首次独立主持了第一个省部级课题——国家文物局课题《围绕博物馆展览的前中后三阶段教育活动的策划与实施研究》。博士毕业2年后，我出版了专著《博物馆教育活动研究》，并有幸荣获了3项全国性奖。
Zheng Yi: During my PhD, I went to the Museum Studies Department at George Washington University in the United States to study museum education and conducted in-depth research at the Smithsonian Institution, the largest museum complex in the United States and the world. This experience and the knowledge gained became an important part of my doctoral dissertation "Research on Museum Education Activities: Planning and Implementation of Educational Activities Before, During, and After Museum Visits" and helped me independently lead my first provincial and ministerial-level project during my PhD—the National Cultural Heritage Administration project "Research on the Planning and Implementation of Educational Activities Before, During, and After Museum Exhibitions." Two years after graduating with my PhD, I published the monograph "Research on Museum Education Activities" and was honored to receive three national awards.

美国史密森博物学院的公教活动 Public education activities of the Smithsonian Institution in the United States

当然，我在前往美国学习前，师从导师学习了策展等。所以我一直秉承的理念是，博物馆教育或教育活动不是孤立的，而是得基于展览发展“展教结合”。事实上，大部分教育都在一定程度上与展览相关，而展览本身也是最典型的教育产品。
Of course, before going to the United States to study, I learned curating and other skills from my mentor. Therefore, the concept I have always adhered to is that museum education or educational activities are not isolated but should be developed based on exhibitions, combining "exhibition and education." In fact, most education is related to exhibitions to some extent, and exhibitions themselves are the most typical educational products.

澳大利亚是维多利亚州立美术馆儿童展厅中，由设计二人组搭建“餐馆”。
In Australia, a "restaurant" was built by a design duo in the children's gallery of the National Gallery of Victoria.

近十年来，我国博物馆教育活动大发展。从数量上，2022年我国博物馆举办线下教育活动近23万场，推出线上教育活动4万余场。从质量上，我们越来越注重从分众化、一体化、衍生化等角度来策划和实施教育活动，尤其是一体化维度。具体说来，一方面，活动的开展不局限于观众的实地参观阶段，也包括参观前和参观后两个阶段，因此从三阶段角度、从广度上进行一体化规划与实施。并且，三阶段活动不仅缺一不可，而且需循序渐进、要富有针对性地开展。另一方面，参观博物馆是最基本和普遍的教育活动。因此，“观众参观阶段”为最主要的阶段。博物馆得立足展览主题、内容和形式，从深度上开展一系列延伸和拓展型教育活动，充分把握并有效利用观众在馆内的逗留时间，为他们呈现精彩、难忘并有意义的博物馆之旅。
In the past decade, museum education activities in our country have seen great development. In terms of quantity, in 2022, museums in our country held nearly 230,000 offline educational activities and launched more than 40,000 online educational activities. In terms of quality, we are increasingly focusing on planning and implementing educational activities from the perspectives of segmentation, integration, and derivation, especially the integration dimension. Specifically, on the one hand, the activities are not limited to the on-site visit stage of the audience but also include the pre-visit and post-visit stages. Therefore, from the perspective of the three stages, integrated planning and implementation are carried out in terms of breadth. Moreover, the activities of the three stages are indispensable and need to be carried out progressively and with targeted approaches. On the other hand, visiting museums is the most basic and common educational activity. Therefore, the "audience visit stage" is the most important stage. Museums should develop a series of extended and expanded educational activities based on the theme, content, and form of the exhibition, fully grasp and effectively utilize the audience's time in the museum, and present them with a wonderful, memorable, and meaningful museum journey.

澎湃新闻：在博物馆教育课题中，你尤其关注“博物馆与中小学教育”。深化馆校合作机制、打造青少年教育的“第二课堂”等一直也是国家层面倡导的，你认为将博物馆与中小学教育结合有哪些现实意义？
The Paper: In the topic of museum education, you particularly focus on "museums and primary and secondary education." Deepening the cooperation mechanism between museums and schools and creating a "second classroom" for youth education has also been advocated at the national level. What do you think is the practical significance of combining museums with primary and secondary education?

郑奕：国际社会将博物馆纳入国民教育体系，同时关注学校教育与终身学习两方面。事实上，博物馆纳入国民教育体系的主要内涵及要求是：为青少年教育服务，重点纳入义务教育体系，切实融入中小学教学计划。鉴于此，博物馆与中小学教育结合，是将博物馆纳入国民教育体系的重中之重，并已成为博物馆事业发达国家的普遍行为。
Zheng Yi: The international community has integrated museums into the national education system, focusing on both school education and lifelong learning. In fact, the main content and requirements of integrating museums into the national education system are: serving youth education, focusing on integrating into the compulsory education system, and effectively integrating into primary and secondary school teaching plans. Therefore, the combination of museums and primary and secondary education is the top priority of integrating museums into the national education system and has become a common practice in countries with developed museum industries.

上海自然博物馆（资料图） Shanghai Natural History Museum (file photo)

博物馆与中小学教育结合的意义和价值体现在多方面，并存在递进关系。首先，双方合作能更好地给予青少年信息和知识等；在此基础上，集体提升他们的能力，如信息获取能力、交际能力、科技知识、批判式思维、解决问题能力、创造性、文化素养、全球意识等。但最重要的是，激发对象的情感，真正点燃大家的态度与精神，作用于情感、态度、价值观。也即，在馆校合作、文教结合中潜移默化地影响中小学生的思想观念、价值判断、道德情操，润物细无声地转化为其情感认同和行为习惯。
The significance and value of the combination of museums and primary and secondary education are reflected in many aspects and have a progressive relationship. First, cooperation between the two can better provide information and knowledge to young people; on this basis, collectively enhance their abilities, such as information acquisition ability, communication ability, scientific knowledge, critical thinking, problem-solving ability, creativity, cultural literacy, global awareness, etc. But most importantly, it stimulates the emotions of the audience, truly igniting their attitudes and spirits, affecting their emotions, attitudes, and values. That is, in the cooperation between museums and schools, and the combination of culture and education, it subtly influences the thoughts, value judgments, and moral sentiments of primary and secondary school students, quietly transforming into their emotional identity and behavioral habits.

上海天文馆 Shanghai Planetarium

澎湃新闻：据你了解，近年来馆校合作实践推进情况如何？存在哪些阻碍因素？
The Paper: According to your understanding, how has the practice of museum-school cooperation progressed in recent years? What are the obstacles?

郑奕：自2008年起，我国博物馆开始对未成年人逐渐、基本减免费开放，可以说中小学利用博物馆学习的机制正在逐步形成，当然整体尚处于初级发展阶段。
Zheng Yi: Since 2008, museums in our country have gradually and basically opened free to minors. It can be said that the mechanism for primary and secondary schools to use museums for learning is gradually taking shape, although the overall development is still in its early stages.

事实上，博物馆与中小学教育结合事业并不简单地等同于馆校合作，不局限于馆和校，而是覆盖了政府、学校、博物馆、家庭、社区等的系统工程。一方面，它必须以“点”带“线”和“面”；另一方面，它以政府为“主导”，以博物馆、中小学为“主体”并尤以场馆的积极“主动”为先。一言以蔽之，该事业亟需“制度设计”。
In fact, the integration of museums with primary and secondary education is not simply equivalent to museum-school cooperation, nor is it limited to museums and schools. It is a systematic project that covers the government, schools, museums, families, and communities. On the one hand, it must use "points" to lead "lines" and "surfaces"; on the other hand, it is led by the government, with museums and primary and secondary schools as the main bodies, and especially with the active "initiative" of the venues. In short, this undertaking urgently needs "institutional design."

暑期，中国国家博物馆迎来客流参观高峰 During the summer, the National Museum of China welcomes a peak in visitor traffic.

就不足而言，第一，我国博物馆的校均、生均占有量亟待扩增。第二，专项法律法规、规划待补位，专项政策存在提升空间。 第三，专项运营经费保障亟待扩增并稳定。第四，博物馆对中小学的教育供给亟待常态化、对等化，内容、形式整体单一。这些是我撰写第二本专著《博物馆与中小学教育结合：制度设计研究》的初衷之一，以期为相关实践提供智力支持，并有幸在“教育学”领域获得了三项政府大奖。
As for the shortcomings, first, the per-school and per-student share of museums in our country urgently needs to be expanded. Second, special laws, regulations, and plans need to be supplemented, and there is room for improvement in special policies. Third, the guarantee of special operating funds urgently needs to be expanded and stabilized. Fourth, the educational supply of museums to primary and secondary schools urgently needs to be normalized and equalized, and the content and form are generally monotonous. These are one of the original intentions of my writing the second monograph "Research on the Integration of Museums and Primary and Secondary Education: Institutional Design," in the hope of providing intellectual support for related practices, and I was fortunate to receive three government awards in the field of "Education."

上海玻璃博物馆的公教项目，灯工演示 The public education project of the Shanghai Glass Museum, lampworking demonstration.

澎湃新闻：你如何看待当前的文博“研学热”及其引发的相关问题？它是新形势下产生的新型博物馆教育实践么？
The Paper: How do you view the current "study tour fever" in cultural and museum studies and the related issues it has raised? Is it a new type of museum education practice emerging under the new circumstances?

郑奕：经过前期试点，研学旅行是我国今后校外教育的重要内容，是贯彻我国重大文教方针政策的举措，同时也是博物馆进一步与中小学教育结合的契机。
Zheng Yi: After the initial pilot phase, study tours have become an important part of extracurricular education in our country. They are measures to implement major cultural and educational policies and also an opportunity for museums to further integrate with primary and secondary education.

“研学旅行”又叫修学旅行，是学生集体参加的有组织、有计划、有目的的校外参观体验实践活动。并且，研学旅行有“两不算、两才算”特点。其一，校外排列课后的一些兴趣小组、俱乐部活动、棋艺比赛、校园文化等，不符合修学旅行范畴；其二，有意组织。也即有目的、有意识地作用于学生身心变化的教育活动。如果周末三三两两出去转一圈，那不叫修学旅行；其三，集体活动。也即以年级、以班、乃至以学校为单位进行集体活动。学生在教师或辅导员带领下一起动手，共同体验、相互研讨，这才是修学旅行。如果孩子跟着家长到异地转一圈，那只是旅游而已；其四，亲身体验。学生必须有体验，而不仅仅是看一看、转一转，要动手、动脑、动口。在一定情况下，应该还有对抗、逃生演练的机会，出点力、流点汗，乃至经风雨、见世面。
"Study tours," also known as educational trips, are organized, planned, and purposeful off-campus experiential activities that students participate in collectively. Study tours have the characteristics of "two exclusions and two inclusions." First, extracurricular activities such as interest groups, club activities, chess competitions, and campus culture events do not fall under the category of educational trips. Second, intentional organization is required, meaning activities that purposefully and consciously impact students' physical and mental development. Casual outings on weekends do not count as study tours. Third, collective activities are necessary, meaning activities conducted as a grade, class, or even school unit. Students engage in hands-on activities, experience together, and discuss with each other under the guidance of teachers or counselors. If children travel with their parents to another place, it is merely tourism. Fourth, personal experience is essential. Students must engage in hands-on, mind-on, and verbal activities, not just look around. Under certain circumstances, there should be opportunities for confrontation and escape drills, exerting effort, sweating, and experiencing the elements and the world.

文博研学 Cultural and Museum Study Tours

对照这些标准，一大问题是，很多我们以为的所谓“研学游”并不是真正意义上的。更重要的是，博物馆在其中扮演的角色其实还很有限。但毋庸置疑，它是新时代一种新型的博物馆教育活动形式以及馆校合作、文教结合形式。值得一提的是，2020年10月发布的《教育部 国家文物局关于利用博物馆资源开展中小学教育教学的意见》已专列了“提升博物馆研学活动质量”要求，包括“各地教育部门要会同文物部门加强对博物馆研学活动的统筹管理和监督指导，开发一批立德启智、特色鲜明的博物馆研学精品线路和课程，构建博物馆研学资源网络，发挥实践育人作用。博物馆研学活动要注重分龄设计”。这无疑给当下如火如荼发展的博物馆研学实践以理念和实践引导。
According to these standards, a major issue is that many so-called "study tours" are not genuinely educational trips. More importantly, the role of museums in these activities is still quite limited. However, it is undoubtedly a new form of museum education activity and a form of collaboration between museums and schools, as well as a combination of culture and education in the new era. It is worth mentioning that the "Opinions on Utilizing Museum Resources for Primary and Secondary Education and Teaching" issued by the Ministry of Education and the State Administration of Cultural Heritage in October 2020 specifically included requirements for "improving the quality of museum study tours," including "local education departments should work with cultural heritage departments to strengthen the overall management and supervision of museum study tours, develop a batch of distinctive and enlightening museum study tour routes and courses, build a network of museum study tour resources, and play a role in practical education. Museum study tours should focus on age-appropriate design." This undoubtedly provides conceptual and practical guidance for the currently booming development of museum study tours.