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Not-so-small talk 非小型对话

A good read for great connections
精彩内容的连接阅读

David Brooks' new book teaches us how—and why—to make every word count.

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由比尔·盖茨撰写于 2024 年 5 月 21 日 阅读时长约 4 分钟

When I was younger, I would have been perfectly happy spending hours alone in my room reading, learning about my latest obsession, and letting my mind wander.
年轻时,我会很乐意独自在房间里读书,学习最新的痴迷点,让我的思绪自由游走数小时。

But my mom was intentional about creating opportunities for me to engage and socialize—encouraging me to interact with all the guests who visited our house and making me serve as a greeter at my dad’s work events.
但我妈妈故意为我创造接触和社交的机会——鼓励我与来访我们家的客人互动,并让我在爸爸的工作活动上担任接待员。

She believed that connecting with others was a skill that had to be cultivated, even (or perhaps especially) for an introverted kid like me.
她认为,与人交流是一种必须培养的技能,对于一个像我这样的内向孩子来说更是如此。

I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately after reading David Brooks's newest book, How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen. It was recommended to me by my friend Bernie Noe, and I was eager to dive in because I know David and enjoyed his previous book, The Road to Character. (Also: Whenever Bernie recommends a book to me, I read it.) The key premise is one I haven't found in any other book: that conversational and social skills aren't just innate traits—they can be learned and improved upon.
我最近一直在思考这个问题,原因是我读了戴维·布鲁克斯的新书《如何了解一个人:深度洞察他人与深度被了解的艺术》。这本书是我的朋友伯尼·诺推荐给我的,我很渴望能读这本书,因为我很了解戴维并且喜欢他的上一本书《通往性格之路》。另外,每当伯尼推荐一本书给我时,我都会去读。这本书的关键前提是我在其他书中从未见过的:对话和社会技能并不是与生俱来的特质,而是可以学习和提高的。

As someone who has always been more comfortable making software than small talk, I found this idea both refreshing and informative. As a result, even though some of its advice may seem fairly rudimentary, the book is now my favorite of anything David has written.
作为那些擅长编写软件但社交对话不擅长的人,我发现这个想法令人耳目一新并且信息丰富。因此,尽管书中的一些建议看起来相当基础,但这本书现在是我最喜欢的戴维写的任何东西。

While reading How to Know a Person, I took a ton of notes and reflected on my own communication style. In Chapter 6, "Good Talks," David dives into what makes a conversation meaningful.
在阅读《如何识人》的过程中,我做了很多笔记,并反思了自己的沟通方式。在第六章《良好的对话》中,大卫深入探讨了是什么让对话变得有意义。

It really got me thinking about when I am fully present and engaged in a conversation, and when am I just trying to preserve my energy or avoid being interrupted.
这真的让我思考,我在何时会全神贯注、全心投入地与他人交谈,又何时只是试图节省精力或避免被打断。

I had to laugh at myself a bit, because I know I've been guilty of talking about topics I find fascinating, like the history of fertilizer, without always checking to see if the other person is interested.
我忍不住有点自嘲,因为我明白我曾犯过这样的错误——讨论我觉得很有趣的话题,比如化肥的历史,而没有总是去确认对方是否感兴趣。

One powerful takeaway from the book is the importance of active listening—or, as David calls it, loud listening. “When another person is talking,” he writes, “you want to be listening so actively that you’re practically burning calories.” I’m pretty good at that kind of listening when I’m super interested in a topic, especially when I’m learning something new.
从这本书中收获良多的一点是积极倾听的重要性——或者就像大卫所说的那样,大声倾听。“当他人在讲话时,”他写道,“你要全神贯注地倾听,以消耗几乎都在燃烧的热量。”我在非常感兴趣的课题上,尤其是学习新事物时,很擅长这种倾听方式。

But the book made clear how transformative it can be to bring that same enthusiasm when listening to someone talk about a hardship they’re dealing with or an accomplishment they’re proud of.
但是这本书清楚地说明了,当倾听别人谈论他们所面临的困难或他们所取得的成就时,保持同样的热情所带来的改变将是巨大的。

Fortunately, the book is full of practical advice for doing that.
幸运的是,这本书充满了实用的建议,可以帮助做到这一点。

David emphasizes something I’ve found really helpful in my own life: asking open-ended questions—with phrases like "How did you…," "What's it like…," "Tell me about…," and "In what ways…"—that invite people to share their experiences and perspectives in a more in-depth way.
大卫强调了我在自己的生活中发现的一些很有帮助的事情:提出开放式问题——用像“你是怎么做的......”,“它是怎样的......”,“关于这个告诉我是什么样的......”,和“你怎样能......这样的表达——来让人们能以更深入的方面来分享他们的经历和观点。

David also recommends using the "looping" technique, where you paraphrase what someone has just said to ensure you've understood them correctly.
大卫还建议使用“重复”技巧,即复述别人刚刚说的话以确保你正确理解了他们的话。

And he endorses what experts call the SLANT method to convey attention and interest in a conversation: Sit up, Lean forward, Ask questions, Nod, and Track the speaker.
并且他认同专家所称的斜杠(SLANT)方法来吸引谈话中的注意力和兴趣:坐直,身体前倾,提问,点头和追踪说话者。

What I found especially compelling about the book is how it shows that these skills are relevant across all kinds of relationships and interactions.
我发现这本书特别引人入胜的地方在于它展示了这些技能在各种关系和互动中的相关性。

Whether you're catching up with a close friend, chatting with a coworker, or just exchanging pleasantries with someone while waiting in line for a cheeseburger, being fully present and attuned can transform the encounter.
无论你是在和亲密的朋友叙旧,和同事聊天,还是在排队买芝士汉堡时与人寒暄,完全投入并融入其中都能让这次偶遇焕发不同光彩。

These simple practices can go a long way in making others feel heard and valued.
这些简单的做法能让别人觉得自己被听到并受到重视。

The more I read, the more I realized how much the book's insights connect to the broader challenges we face in today's world. Back in 1995, when I wrote The Road Ahead, I predicted that technology would make it easier for us to stay connected with our hometowns and share our lives with others. And in many ways, it has.
我读得越多,越意识到这本书的见解与我们今天面临的更广泛挑战之间的联系。早在 1995 年,当我撰写《前进之路》时,我预测技术将使我们更容易与本乡本土保持联系,与他人分享我们的生活。在很多时候,确实如此。

But David argues in Chapter 8, "The Epidemic of Blindness," that technology has also contributed to a growing sense of loneliness and disconnection. We may be more connected than ever, but are we truly seeing and understanding each other?
然而大卫在第八章“盲目瘟疫”中争辩说,技术也导致了孤独和无联系的感觉日益增长。我们可能比以往任何时候都联系得更为紧密,但是我们真的看到对方和理解对方吗?

This question becomes even more urgent when considering the social and political divisions David highlights.
考虑到大卫所强调的社会和政治分歧,这个问题变得更加紧迫。

The statistics he cites about the rise in depression, suicide, and distrust are alarming, and he makes the case that this social unraveling is fueling our political divides.
他引用的关于抑郁、自杀和不信任上升的统计数据令人震惊,他证明这种社会崩溃正在加剧我们的政治分歧。

His discussion about how politics can become a substitute for genuine connection—leading people to get their satisfaction from yelling at those they disagree with instead of trying to understand them—highlights a trend that worries me a great deal.
他讨论了政治如何取代真正的联系,使人们从对不同意的人的喊叫中获得满足感,而不是试图理解他们,这凸显了一种令我非常担忧的趋势。

In the book, David connects these social ills to changes in our education system. He argues that schools have shifted away from teaching what he calls “moral and social skills,” and that this has left us ill-equipped to build strong relationships and communities.
在这本书中,大卫将这些社会弊病与我们的教育体系的变化联系起来。他认为学校已经放弃了教授他所谓的“道德和社会技能”,这使我们难以建立牢固的关系和社区。

It’s an interesting and timely argument for sure, but I wished it were further built out.
这确实是一个有趣而及时的论点,但希望进一步扩充一下论点内容。

I’d be interested in reading more about how David defines this type of teaching, how he measures the changes, and how he thinks education can help reverse some of these troubling social trends. In fact, I think there’s another book waiting to be written here.
我很想了解大卫是如何定义这种教学方法的,他是如何衡量变化的,以及他认为教育如何有助于扭转这些令人担忧的社会趋势。事实上,我认为还有另一本书等着写出来。

For the most part, though, what makes David's book so compelling is that it challenges us to put its insights into practice.
不过,在很大程度上,大卫的书如此引人入胜的地方在于它挑战我们将书中的见解付诸实践。

It's about being intentional in our interactions, whether that means asking more thoughtful questions, fully listening to the answers, or expressing genuine appreciation.
它关乎我们交往时的意图,无论是提出更有思想的问题,还是充分聆听答案或表达真诚的赞赏。

It's about approaching conversations with generosity and curiosity, looking for ways to connect and understand.
它是关于以慷慨和好奇的态度展开对话,寻找联系与理解的方式。

And it's about realizing that even small things—like asking the right question at the right time or giving a nice compliment—can make a big difference in building relationships. I’m certain that what I learned from the book will stay with me for a long time.
而且,关键是要意识到即使是像在合适的时间提出正确的问题或给予真诚的赞美这样的小事,也能在建立关系方面产生巨大差异。我确信我从这本书上学到的东西将长时间陪伴着我。

Overall, I can’t recommend How to Know a Person highly enough. More than a guide to better conversations, it’s a blueprint for a more connected and humane way of living.
总的来说,我极力推荐《如何识人》。这本书不仅仅是一本引导你进行更好对话的书,它更像是一个蓝图,引领你过上更加紧密、人性化的人生。

It's a must-read for anyone looking to deepen their relationships and broaden their perspectives—and I believe it has the power to make us better friends, colleagues, and citizens.
对于想要深化人际关系和拓宽视野的人来说,这是一本必读书——我相信它有能力让我们成为更好的朋友、同事和公民。

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感谢您加入盖茨笔记内部人士社区。评论不显示吗?您可以点击这里查看我们的评论监管政策,也可以在这里了解我们的盖茨笔记徽章。
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60 responses 回应(responses)
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Kaveh Sohrabi 卡维赫·索拉比
New member 新成员
1 day ago

I have known people who leave me because they no longer benefit from me. This book may be able to show people's inner selves. Thank you, grandfather
我认识了一些离开我的人,因为他们不再从我这里获益。这本书或许能展现出人们真正的内心。谢谢您,爷爷。

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Margaret cherry Aciro 玛格丽特·樱桃·阿西罗
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2 days ago

Must read someday, 总有一天必须阅读

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Viet Le Khanh 维莱·莱坎
Member for 1 month
成为会员已有 1 个月
4 days ago

Hearing the name feels great! Thank you Bill Gates!!
听到这个名字感觉太好了!谢谢你比尔盖茨!!

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Miralem Handan 米兰姆·汉丹
New member 新成员
5 days ago

Thank you for the book review!
谢谢你的书评!

It's interesting. 很有趣。

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Viet Le Khanh 维莱·莱坎
Member for 1 month
已加入一个月
3 days ago

Thank you!! 谢谢你!!

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Kei Watanabe 渡边恺之
Member for 1 year
会员一年
7 days ago

Thank you for the book review!
谢谢你的书评!

I didn't know this book yet, but I got to thinking I'd like to read and learn from David!
我还没读过这本书,但我想我会喜欢从大卫那里阅读和学习!

Memo to myself: https://glasp.co/discover/book/B00LYXV61Y
备忘录:https://glasp.co/discover/book/B00LYXV61Y

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Darlene Arendt
Member for 1 year
7 days ago

I've read several books by David Brooks, and this, his latest book, was quite interesting. There were good suggestions as to how to maintain a conversation and also how to be a good conversationalist. In my experience one of the best aspects of a good conversation is the ability to listen. For example, I once had a conversation with a acquaintance who monopolized the conversation while I mostly listened. When the conversation had ended he turned to me and said " you are one of the best conversationalists I've ever encountered." I thanked him but was thinking I didn't say two words, all I did was listen. Apparently that is what this person needed, someone to listen. It didn't cost me anything, and I seemed to have made his day. 

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Kgomotso Molelu
Member for 3 years
10 days ago

That said, I appreciate Brooks’ candor. He regularly admits where he falls short in areas he is discussing. He also seems passionate about this subject, which is commendable for someone who has been churning out bestselling books for a while now.

I could identify with much of what he presents in this book. I meet people often, and it is surprising how readily total strangers will start sharing their life with you if you show interest and ask good questions.

This book can be a valuable resource. We would all do well to think through how we treat others and how well we actually know those we encounter often.

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Kgomotso Molelu
Member for 3 years
10 days ago

Overall, I found this book interesting and helpful. Brooks deals with a crucial issue for today’s society. With the pervasive use of cell phones, social media, and remote work, our society is becoming increasingly isolated and unable to connect with people on a deeply personal level. There is no doubt that people long to be truly known by others, yet secular society seems to have lost its tools to help people do so.

Brooks is a great storyteller. He also draws on numerous studies. I generally find this style interesting. But this book felt somewhat disjointed at times. He includes some long stories that don’t seem clearly connected with points he made in the previous chapter. Though Brooks is obviously knowledgeable, parts of the book read like a journalist’s compilation of quotes from various sources. That said, I appreciate Brooks’ candor. He regularly admits where he falls short in areas he is discussing.

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Ngbede James
New member
18 days ago

Thank you so much for sharing this priceless knowledge with us. I really enjoyed reading 📖 this and I hope what I’ve learnt today is going to stay with me if not forever to some extent.

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Monica Souza
New member
18 days ago

Thank you for sharing a little of your experience with us. Learning to improve our communication makes our relationships healthier.


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Clark Machamer
New member
25 days ago

Thank you for taking the time to share your heartfelt thoughts about this book. You are blessed to have David as a friend - may that friendship continue to grow.

I laughed when I read, "I had to laugh at myself a bit because I know I've been guilty of talking about topics I find fascinating, like the history of fertilizer, without always checking to see if the other person is interested." I can relate to this, as I, too, love to learn and share my knowledge with others, sometimes without considering their level of interest.

Your review shows that you are putting David's teachings into practice. You have successfully conveyed your thoughts and, by extension, a part of yourself to me, aligning with David's goal of "Tell me who you are."

I pray for you often. Take care.

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Bruna Pozzebon
Member for 1 year
26 days ago

About David Brooks I kept this beautiful part "I learned something profound along the way. Having an open heart is a prerequisite for being a full, kind and wise human being. But it is not enough. People need social skills. We talk about the importance of “relationships”, “community”, “friendship”, “social connection”, but these words are very abstract. The actual act of, say, building a friendship or creating a community involves doing a series of things well. small concrete social actions: disagreeing without poisoning the relationship; knowing how to disappoint someone without breaking their heart; someone who is suffering; knowing how to organize a meeting where everyone feels embraced" ... Obrigada, professor.

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EWHERHE AKPESIRI
New member
27 days ago

Hello sir, i really enjoying reading your blog thank you very much sir, I'm also a software engineer, you're like a legend to me sir

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Ana Viana
Member for 1 month
28 days ago

Sir,I like to read when you comments about books because you always find "the key"to understand a book!

What you said about the books you have read are so correct!📚✨💖

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William King Gutshall
Member for 3 years
28 days ago

Hi Bill, I just watched the videos produced by Partners of Human Potential. Wow! Short, informative, and well done! More of this please!

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Billy Hinners
Member for 1 month
29 days ago

A modern version of Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People?

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Trish Short Lewis
Member for 1 month
29 days ago

thank you for sharing how to know a person. I always thought I was a good listener, but I really need to learn to listen better.

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